How would you go about laying your bike down?
 

Just wondering if any of you ever think about what technique you will/would/have used to lay your bike down intentionally? Say for instance a car pull out in front of you and there's no where to go, your options are to lay it down or hit the car. Do you have the skills to lay your bike down in time or do you panic and plow into the car?

My father-in-law had to lay his bike down yesterday when a guy pulled out into his path, I have yet to talk with him about the specifics but it gave me an idea for a thread for this section that we may be able to gain some insight on from other's experiences.

Damn that sucks, was this your old Ninja 500?

Never thought about it in detail. I just look for any escape routes or try not to get into the predicament.

Got me thinking... as usual.

I don't think I would ever intentionally lay my bike down. Impacts aren't fun, but laying the bike down guarantees that the driver won't be held accountable for what they did.

Yup! Scratched up the right side fairing, broke turn signals, have yet to see it but will be getting it back in shape for him. It's still rideable, just has a bit more "character" at the moment.:lol:

Other than being a little bit sore and having a sore toe:?: He's okay too...

I was in the situation once, back when I was riding my YZF600R.
I wouldn't call what I did a 'skill', it just sort of occurred as a part of a sequence of events.
Thinking back, as best I can remember anyway, I didn't have sufficient time to maneuver around the truck that turned in front of me, so I attempted to brake and the bike just sort of went down and slid into the side of the truck.
(and so did I, for that matter)
I was wearing a good leather jacket and the pavement was pretty smooth in that intersection so I came away with no road rash, just a couple of big bruises.
Probably a much better outcome than t-boning the truck and going airborne.

Definitely a better option....I know a guy who had a corvette do a u turn in front of him, he t-boned the car with the bike nestled up in the door and t-top area, he had to be air lifted to the hospital, now in his instance he was going at a high rate of speed and was in the wrong

Yeah, I was legal, doing normal road speed for that street and area.
The little Ford Ranger made an unprotected left across my lane because it was night and he underestimated my speed. (a very common thing, or so I'm told)

NEVER intentionally crash your motorcycle. When you crash, you relinquish all control over your vehicle and the situation. Additionally, every last moment you can spend braking is a significant reduction in impact force with another object.

Too be blunt....
I do not know of anyone who has laid a bike down intentionally.
I know plenty of people who wiped out and claimed they did it intentionally (cause real men are always in control and would never fuck up!!:lol:)

My philosophy has been up to this point at least ride it out and fight til I'm down, don't panic and do whatever possible and can speak from my experience when that damn F-250 pulled out in front of me, I'll claim it as luck more so than skill but I did not panic and was able to apply maximum braking to get stopped. Then there was that time I hit the road covered in pine straw, took an off road excursion jumped a dirt mound and came back on the road:lol

Certainly a valid point.

Glad to hear he is OK. I was going to ask that next.

True!

Also probably true

And I would just hit the stoppers as hard as I can.

The act of "laying it down" would involve sliding the rear end out and low siding. In order to do that you have to lock up the rear wheel, turn the bars and tuck the bike towards the pavement.

On my new HD with ABS this is probably going to be impossible. You can't lock up the wheels. Lord knows I've tried... just ask Marko! Damn near did a stoppie in the rain in PA. He looked at me like WTF I just told him I was trying to test the ABS. LOL

Too bad you didn't get this on video, sounds pretty sweet! LOL. Glad nothing happened to you though.

I dunno. I laid my bike down trying to make a turn once, i was just turning harder than the bike had the ability to turn. Did I lay it down on purpose yes I leaned it all the way into the turn as hard as I could hoping not to hit a wall, and in my mind yeh I still had more tire left so I could keep leaning. At the end of the day more tire was really more plastic.

So did I really want to be sliding my bike on its side, not reallly, but yes I did lay it down on purpose

I do it all the time. Its fun!

That is what i've always thought.

That is just low siding. Not intentionally laying it down.
Intentionally laying it down is the most useless thing you can do. You have no control over where you are sliding, or what you are going to hit. Keep the bike upright, and SQUEEZE the front brake, and jump on the rear too. You will have a chance to stop, and a good chance to swerve then(or slow down alot more than you would if you 'laid it down'.

Just the reaction time alone needed to make that snap decision is all the time that it takes for you to hit the car. Usually if a car turns in front of you it is at the last second. I think it is virtually impossible to make up your mind that fast that you are going to lay the bike down and then do it...just not enough time. And like Fleck said, if you lay the bike down you relinquish all your legal rights to the driver who cut you off.

Back in January when I got into my accident, even though I hit the lady from behind the cop still gave her the ticket, the cop determined that it was her fault for causing the accident. Now think about if I would've had enough time to lay the bike down and avoid the accident. My bike would've been wrecked and I still would've gone to the hospital and I would have to foot the bill for the whole thing. Instead make that bitch pay and go on a nice vacation. Of course I am still minus a bike, but that is because I am paying off some other stuff first.

I'll never lay it down on purpose. For all the reasons mentioned above. I'm going down fighting till the last second.

TOTALLY agree with the Awesome and Pauldun. I call BS when people say "they had to lay the bike down" Really? You had such presence of mind to know you were in trouble that you chose to GIVE UP slowing the bike down with both tires on the ground and pitch it to the pavement? Thats fucking retarded. You have brakes and most bikes, esp sportbikes are capable of incredible braking. Use that until you can't anymore. Period

Oh you kids these days. :lol:

There was a time when knowing how to lay your bike down, was considered an essential skill. Granted, this was in the days of drum brakes, which of course, sucked. But it's still a viable option in extreme circumstances.

Given the choice between hitting a car, truck, moose, etc., and dumping your bike before you hit said big fucking thing in your way that is going to totally fuck your shit up, you would be a fool to not try it.

I've never had to do it on the street, but I have done it on the dirt. Both times it was completely my own fault. Once, going too fast towards a corner on a downhill run, it became apparent that there was no fucking way I was going to make the turn. I had misjudged the "road" surface, and my brakes were not slowing me down fast enough. The choice was dump, or go over a fairly nasty cliff. I chose dump. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

The mechanics of it are very simple. Grab a hand full of brake, and whack the bars in the opposite direction of where you "want" to fall. You will essentially counter steer yourself into the ground. The hard part is making yourself commit, and it's obviously not something you want to practice, however, if you have absolutely no where to go, it's a hell of a lot better to crack a couple of ribs, than to stick your head through the side a Buick, just so you can say it wasn't your fault.

JC

I'd take a couple of shop towels, fold one up a few times and put it over the bar end, and just fold the other one in half to go under the tank. Stand on the down side, grip the bar on the down side with one hand, and the grab rail or underseat rail with the other. Start close to the bike and walk backwards slowly, bending at the knees as it gets closer to the ground. If you've got the leg strength, it'll be smoother if you balance the bike on one knee as it gets lower, and switch your grip to the up-side bar end.

Getting it upside-down, I usually grab the fork with one hand and the back wheel with the other, and turn the wheel sideways once the bike is high enough off the ground. That way, the handlebars are in line with the bike rather than moving your pivot point way out to the side. Best to have a few extra towels, and work on a rubber mat.

:lol:

Or, you could just let Tigger ride it.

JC

I do it only to make epic slides underneath semi trailers.... :whistle:

I tried that but I ended up under the wheels. :td:

I learned everything I need to know right here...

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...ter/torque.jpg

Everybody knows plastic/aluminum/chrome has a higher coefficient of friction than brake pads & rubber. :lol:
'Nothing I could do, so I laid it down' = don't have a clue how to brake/countersteer hard (stomp the rear & fishtail) - in the vast majority of circumstances.

Sometimes all the braking and counter steering in the world won't help you when a dump truck is blocking the entire fucking road.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...ray70/bike.jpg

Your brakes will always slow you down faster than your skin...

If you came to a stop from sliding under his rear wheels, I can't help but think you would have been able to stop had you used your brakes.

Maybe not, but everything I know of physics says yes.

It's not a question of if you're going to hit it, but HOW you're going to hit it.

Sideways, or head first.

Pick one.

JC

I don't like your options, how about 35mph without a bike or 5 mph with one?


I undertand what you're saying amj, fully.

But! You will always stop faster while one the bike on the brakes, as opposed to sliding on your ass.


I've looped a bike at 60mph and slid and rolled at least 75 to 100 feet. I could have stopped using my brakes in 1/4 of that.


The bike would have slid much further, but it got stopped by some trees.

Notice I looped my bike..

I didn't say the front wheel was in the air, and I had no choice but to let go..


I fucked up, and I was the cause. I didn't let go to remain in control, I let go because I was out of control and beyond my skill level.

Not to be contentious but in April of 05 I was presented with Hit the back of the car that just entered my lane or take the bike down. I was riding a 03 Victory Touring Cruiser (which has very good Brembo Brakes) I documented what happened in a thread asking about what went through you mind when you crashed thread that is here on this board some where.
I will tell you that there was very little thought in what I did it was was instinctive move after the other. Please feel free to look it up. I think "Laying a Bike down" Has more to do with instinctive survival at no time did I mentally list everything I was going to do I fought in every way I could to ride out of the crisis but the was a fraction of a second when I knew that was going to happen and from there it wa about damage control.

There is no way to prove it, but I am an experienced enough and skilled enough racer and street rider that "laying the bike down" is 98% of the time a panick braking maneuver gone wrong and the rider either tucks the front or loses the back. Then they tell all their buddies "I had to lay 'er down. No choice" Laying a 400+ pound bike on the pavement at any mph vs. trying to use the brakes and/or avoidance maneuvers being called "survival instinct" is bullshit. Plain and simple

My "off" was not an intentional lay down, I actually high sided myself off the bike before it hit the truck. I was braking like mad and I wasn't slowing down. Finally the rear end slid out to the right, threw me off the the bike then landed on it's right side. Funny thing is, I was only going 36mph.

If you can bring your bike to a full stop from 60 mph, in 25 feet or less, I want to know who makes your brakes. :lol: MotoGP bikes can't even do that while going through gravel traps.

In an "Oh Fuck" situation, I would think it's safe to assume that you're already on the brakes. When you figure out that you're still going to impact an obstacle at an unhealthy speed, laying it down may be a better option than going in head first.

I've only done it twice, in 35 years of riding, but it's there, in my "tool kit", if I need it. I'm not saying it's going to "save" you, rather, it just makes the best out of a bad situation.

JC

I get that. And I had a similar VERY low speed highside once. But that is NOT what is being talked about.

Let me approach this a different way. If you have the presence of mind to know there is NO way you can stop and have the time to comtemplate throwing your bike to the pavement and taking your chances with sliding, and still not knowing how much impact is coming, why not just take the impact and jump off the bike forward just as it impacts thereby throwing you over the object. Just like on tv. Makes about as much sense huh?

And Rider this response was not directed at you. "You" being the guys who talk about intentionally putting the bike down.

And most people who think it's all about locking up the rear and performing a fashionable Hollywood "hockey stop" have no clue about how fast they could stop using proper threshhold braking instead. And besides that, why would you want to slide under a vehicle or guardrail, breaking a few ribs and possibly getting run over or drawn and quartered by the guardrail? I'll keep myself upright and brake in a straight line, thank you very much, because it will always stop faster than a lowside/hockey stop/laydown/whatever you want to call it.

Of course you would pick the numbers I picked from my head to counter the argument. Of course those numbers were approximations, I wasn't looking at the speedo when I looped, nor did I use a micrometre to measure the exact distance I slid. I made the assumption that you would get that from my nice round numbers that had a "25" foot variable thrown in.

All I'm gonna say is, I've never seen a pro in a race "have" to lay it down. Nor have I ever heard of anybody leaping from their car to lessen their impact.

If you have to choose between going off of a cliff or laying it down, you absolutely positively have more control being on the brakes and steering. As opposed to being thrown around/rolling/sliding with your skin acting as the brakes. Tires have much much more grip than tissue and blood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKkMkodo4MI&NR=1

JC

:lol

http://bighugelabs.com/output/motiva...f94b4c7ef8.jpg

:lol: :lol

I'm just surprised you didn't use meters instead of feet. :lol:

Race tracks don't generally have Dump Trucks parked sideways in the corners.

Once again, it's not a substitute for braking and maneuvering, it's a fall back option for when braking and maneuvering aren't working.

Ok, a question for all of you. You're headed for the edge of a cliff at Mach 10, and you have a catastrophic brake failure. Let's say you blew a line, and grabbed a big hand full of nothing. Rare? Sure. Impossible? No.

What's the plan?

JC

Your scenario is irrelevant..

You're trying to comparing the rolling friction of the wheels, to the sliding friction of your skin to the sliding friction of rubber.

Obviously if you have no brakes, you want to be as far away from the heavy thing on two rollers with bearings to cut the friction.

In your scenario, you're fucked either way.

But, ultimatlely I would likely downshift to use engine braking to slow down as much as I could. Maybe even lock up the rear by downshifting to first.

Agreed. The scenario is irrelevent. If you have catastrphic brake failure how will you dump the bike? You've got to slow it down anyway you can then bail. THAT is not what has been discussed. It was talk of abandoning a perfectly good cycle for your chances on the pavement.

I can say it is impossible, because no bike will go Mach 10. redflip

Ok, so now you're heading over the cliff at Mach 5, instead of Mach 10.

Let me break this down further. Over the side of the cliff, is a 1000 foot drop, into a pool of sharks with laser beams. Do you "hope" you stop in time, or do you lowside into the guard rail?

Yes, you're fucked either way. The question is: How fucked?

JC

I'll play..


you come to a field of razor blades at mach 15, you think laying down a motorcycle is a good option because you used to do it on your antiquated drum braked garbage 20 years ago, do you hop off or hit the brakes?

So in other words, you have no plan.

How do you dump the bike? Tuck the front end. It's faster with brakes, but it will still fall over without them.

JC

From the online DMV manual:

"When faced with a potentially dangerous situation, it's generally best to remain upright on your bike. Remember, tire rubber has an immense amount of traction. However, plastic, steel, and chrome (the materials found on the side of the bike) offer almost no traction. When you stay on your motorcycle instead of letting it slide, you'll be better able to stop in time or swerve out of the way. The only possible time where it might be a better idea to purposely end up on the ground is when it's better than the alternative, like going over a guardrail down a cliff or into the middle of a ten-car pile-up. Once you lay down a bike, you have absolutely no control over where you will end up."

This is pretty much what I've been saying all along.

JC

You didn't just quote the DMV on anything related to knowledge, did you?
The same DMV that will issue licences to 98 year olds who drive through crowded markets killing people? Yeah, I would trust their safety knowledge.

BTW, that quote was probably written before disc brakes were invented.

Would you prefer an MSF instructor?


High Side Dynamics
By James R. Davis


More often than not, making a mistake while riding a motorcycle leads to misfortune, usually not serious, but sometimes fatal. One of the most deadly mistakes you can make is called doing a highside.

When a bike is 'dumped', or 'laid down', it falls DOWN, gravity assisted, all the way to the ground and ends up on its side. At slow speeds this usually results in little or no damage to the bike or the rider. Even at higher speeds, given that the rider is wearing appropriate protective clothing, most damage is restricted to the bike. In either case, these are known as doing a lowside - meaning that the rider exits the bike by going in the direction of the fall: down.

Obviously, doing a highside means that you exit the bike by being thrown up and over the high side of the bike. That, in itself, is not particularly deadly, but it happens that the bike usually follows the rider into the air and then it comes back down, often on top of him. Not too many people survive such an encounter.

So how does a highside happen? What causes it and what can you do to prevent it from happening?

To begin with, a highside starts when you use so much rear brake pressure that you lock your rear wheel. If you are in a curve, (or if you have also applied your front brake while going in a straight line, or if there is substantial road camber, or severely unbalanced loading of the motorcycle), this starts the rear end sliding/skewing away from the direction the bike had been moving because traction is diminished on the rear tire (it has become 'sliding friction' - about 80% of what it was just prior to the skid) and that tire has begun to MOVE FASTER (in the direction of bike movement) than the front tire (centrifugal force, among others, is having its way.) The automatic, and correct, driver response to this situation is to turn the front wheel in the direction of the slide. [Actually, the front wheel will turn in the direction of the slide by itself - your job is merely to let it.] But now he can make a mistake that can cost him his life - he can release the rear brake.

Let's look at what is happening at the instant his rear brake locks up causing his rear wheel to begin to slide and the instant that he releases pressure on the rear brake. Let's assume a rider is in a gentle turn at the time. (Riding in a straight line is exactly the same as soon as the rear wheel starts to skew to one side or the other of the front wheel track.) The bike is moving in the direction pointed to by the front tire at this instant. Note that the back tire is always 'scuffing' a little as it tries to get into the same direction pointed to by the front tire.

Now at this instant the rear brake locks and the rear wheel loses a significant amount of its traction (at least 20%). It begins to skew outward from the center of the curve.

The driver now allows the front wheel to turn in the direction of the slide. The direction of bike travel has thus changed. Meanwhile, the rear end continues to slide and is still moving FASTER than the front end at this instant. The bike is trying to 'lay down' [because with the rear-wheel no longer spinning you have lost its gyroscopic effect and, thus, attitude stability for about 80% of the bike] and will do so if nothing else happens quickly.

But the rider, realizing that his rear end is sliding completely out of control, decides to release the pressure on the rear brake to try to drive out of the situation. When he does so the rear tire, which is being dragged forward as well as to the side, is suddenly able to start turning again. This allows it to move in the forward direction much more easily than a moment before, and just as suddenly it regains traction (mind you, it lost only about 20% of its traction when it began to slide and it is picking up only that 20% or so of traction at this point.)

Whether the engine is driving the rear tire or not, because the bike is not simply 'dragging/scuffing' the rear tire forward with it (because the tire is now rotating), the bike begins to move faster (actually, is slowing more slowly) in the direction pointed to by the front tire. At the same time, because full traction has been regained, the sliding movement of the rear end of the bike comes to an abrupt end. And what next happens is the highside!

Whether the slide movement of the rear end is abruptly stopped because the rear wheel hits a curb, or because the tire has regained traction, the results are the same: centrifugal force, coupled with inertia, try to keep the center of gravity of the bike moving in the direction it was last traveling. Since the bottom of the rear wheel has stopped sliding, (all stopping forces are at the contact patch), clearly a torque is developed. The result is that the bike is violently twisted in the direction of the earlier slide. The front wheel actually helps this twisting action because it has a bearing in its axle and the bike merely rotates using that bearing as an axis. Naturally, the driver will be thrown in the same direction as the bike is twisted. The mistake, of course, was releasing the pressure on the rear brake. Said differently, if you are in a situation where the rear wheel is sliding out from under you, despite having turned the front wheel in the direction of the slide, then the safest course of action is to RIDE THE BIKE INTO THE GROUND - do a lowside. (i.e., do NOT release the pressure on the rear brake.)

Let me also add that there is one more thing that could have been done to avoid the highside described here: always straighten the bike BEFORE you aggressively use your brakes when in a curve!

If the bike is moving in a straight line, particularly if the bike has any form of integrated braking, and the rear wheel brake locks resulting in a skid, it is still possible to do a highside, but the odds of doing so are far less than when in a curve [the faster you are moving, and the greater the camber (slope) of the road, the higher the odds.] Still, the best decision the rider can make is to NOT RELEASE the rear brake if it is locked to try to insure that a highside does not result.

Abruptly releasing the front brake when the rear wheel is locked and skidding can also cause a highside because it will increase rear wheel weight and, therefore, traction. Nevertheless, the only possible way to 'ride out' of this situation is to get the front end of the bike to go faster than the rear in the direction of the skid. Thus, a gentle relaxation of the front brake is a reasonable action to take. (Note, however, that with any form of integrated braking, this is virtually hopeless because so long as the rear brake is applied the front brake is also being applied.) Increasing front brake pressure, on the other hand, will almost certainly result in immediately laying the bike down on the low side.

Can a highside occur if you do not release the rear brake pressure at all? You bet! If you have ever witnessed a 'straight line' highside accident you will remember that the skid mark was a straight line until the very end at which point it became a 'J'. What that shows is that the rider successfully managed to keep his front wheel pointed in the direction of the skid until he had turned his wheel to its limit (a 'stop' was reached.) When that happens, of course, he can no longer continue to turn into the skid and the direction the bike travels begins to abruptly change - the skid increases until it presents a 90 degree tire face in the direction the bike is moving, which happens to present the largest contact patch 'face' perpendicular to direction of travel and, thus, maximizes the odds that traction can be reestablished. This, then, is approximately when the bike stops its skid and violently snaps into the air.

Having seen that a rear end skid requires that you gently relax front brake pressure and maintain rear brake pressure in hopes that the front wheel can be coaxed into catching up with the rear one (slow more slowly), what should you do if the front wheel begins to skid instead of the rear one? EXACTLY THE SAME THING! Gently release the front brake and maintain the rear one! Thus, you do not have to make a decision based on which tire is skidding. The reaction is the same. So, above I said that if you have a choice you should ride the bike into the ground rather than do a highside. I also said that the dynamics will almost certainly result in a highside even if you do what is corrective - turning into the slide and feathering the front brake. Is it hopeless? Must you do the highside? Not at all. It means that as soon as you know the attempt you are making is not going to work, CLIMB ON THE FRONT BRAKE! This will FORCE a lowside!!! (If you have any form of interlocked brakes you can also force a lowside by INCREASING rear-brake pressure because that increases front-brake pressure as well.)

Please, I do not want to get flamed for suggesting that you actively lowside your bike! If you have ever seen the results of a highside, you should kiss the ground that you have the ability to stop it by laying your bike down. If you can do it, do it. If not, good luck to you anyway. [I have been asked why aggressively using the front brake will cause a lowside rather than making a highside happen sooner. This is because by applying front brake you cause weight transfer that further relieves the rear wheel traction which, in turn, both reduces the odds of a highside and slows the bike faster. i.e., it falls over (lowsides) sooner.


Never say never.

JC

If I were to go about laying my bike down.
I would first drain the fluids.
Remove the plastics.
Choose which side I'm going to lay it down on and remove any peices that may bend.
I would the lay out 10 deluxe medium soft pillows, slightly overlapping on the floor where I'd lay the bike down.

I'd lay the bike down on the pillows.

What happens next...depends on the wine and music

lol......let the google-searching wars commence

I would like to take this moment to point out that racer x is an msf instructor.


Would you change your mind if he agreed with us?


Besides, you're not even arguing a point anymore amj. You're trying to get by on semantics.


I told you earlier that I understood where you're coming from.


If there's a cable across the road at chest height, of course ill lay the bike down. That makes the most sense. Nobody ever once argued that.

You just failed to acknowledg what everybody else was saying and seem like you'd rather be right, than on topic.


Keep at it, but there's no situation when you're going to hit a large immovable object that laying it down is the best scenario..

If Ed had a better way to get out of a highside, sure.


So small immovable objects (cables) is a go.

Good, that is my point. There are some instances, though rare, that laying the bike down is a good idea. See that? We're making progress. Everyone else seems to be saying NEVER NEVER NEVER, but you just proved that there are no absolutes.

I knew you'd see it my way.

JC

i wouldnt

Dude, seriously...

So...next time I'm faced with
a. limbo bar
b. cable strewn across the r


wait a minute...how thick a cable? What diameter cable are we talking about?
Too thin...you wont have time do all this fancy laying it down stuff.
Too thick and why not just stop the damn bike?

What about height?
If its low enough to hit the fairing...it could just kinds deflect over if you lean down enough...

If its to low then you'll do a high side.

Is this a Harley site now? :lmao:

:lol

Lets ask Ed. He is an MSF instructor.:?:

This thread's been such an intersting read, I almost hate to point out the Ed (RacerX)-sized hole in the credibility of your source. :lol:

I was just being tactful.:lol

I know, I know. :lol:

I was going to post the Aaron Yates interview about the time at VIR that he layed his bike down to avoid the tire wall, but that was also the same race where he layed down in the middle of the track, so I went with one of Ed's buddies instead.

JC

Don't be a idiot.

Obviously you'd have to get off the bike and measure the cable before making a decision.

Duh!

JC

Take off my shirt, use it as a parachute.

The bottom line is that if you arrive at "crash on purpose" as your solution, you need to go back to square one and relearn how to handle panic situations. Crashing on purpose is not a skill, it's something you hear about at a bar from a 55 year old Harley rider that thinks front brakes are a liability.

laying it down is NOT a good option to me. I'll do that emergency stop the MSF teachers drilled into my head like a MOTHERFUCKER while shitting bricks probably. or simply swerve and brake if need be to avoid an accident.

laying it down counts as crashing no matter what, so honestly, its just not a good answer to a legitimate problem.

if you've taken an MSF course, you know to brake and swerve, to avoid a crash, or do an emergency stop so you can avoid crashes. both are outstanding solutions that allow you to not see how well your gear(or skin for you squids out there) holds up to asphalt. and keep your bike looking nice.

if you ride a harley with no front brake, or drum brakes, disregard this, have another beer and lay it down.

Um, no. The bottom line is that if you ride a motorcycle you should be open to doing whatever it takes to keep your ass alive.

Knowing how to lay a bike down is an actual skill, it's just not one that you possess.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go out to my garage, and find the asshole who's been parking his no brakes Harley in there, and lying about my age at the bar.

JC

This is generaly how I imagine myself laying down my bike on purpose, well, minus the 2nd guy, and I finish taking out the 1st guy quicker and rescue the chick and have plenty of time to escape

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAXjgTlstHs


This is pretty much another good way to do it, fighting terroistas and rescuing american hostages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTPjWrDmsZ0

Obstacle immediately ahead? Probably would lay it down on the left side if I could. The bars tend to grab the ground, making the bike slide with the rear tire leading. This thus angles the bike in a manner that if anything, may direct you towards the shoulder, which is where you wanna head if you can (and the very thing you're avoiding isn't actually to your right).

Seems to me the longer the rubber is contacting the road the better and faster you stop. I don't see the benefit of having the bike between you and the car unless you plan to slide under a semi-truck.

I'm guessing most people try to hang on to the bike as long as possible and slide by complete panic. I think this fucker still has his hand on the brake hoping he can save it...
http://resources.motogp.com/files/im...review_big.jpg

Yup. Unless you're about to get decapitated by something (trailer) or have very compromised traction (off-pavement/hydroplaning/oil on tires/snow/etc.), those precious few seconds spent dicking around 'laying it down' would be far better spent braking and/or steering to far more effectively scrub off speed and change direction. It's not like once your ass hits the pavement it magically looses momentum & quits traveling in the same vector the bike was moving when you separate. Now if you brake/swerve so hard that you loose traction and low-side, that's one thing - but to me that's simply loosing it in an avoidance maneuver, not laying it down on purpose.

Well according to my wife, the insurance co. is going to total my father in law's bike:?: The guy that pulled out in front of him admitted to causing the spill. Not sure he's going to bother with buying it back, I think he plans to apply whatever funds he receives on another bike, I suggested he look into the Buells, but in the past he's been interested in the V-strom as well.

Before I can "lay a bike down" to avoid an obstacle, I gotta go get me a piece of shit Hardly-Ableson, some assless chaps, a skull bandana, some stupid looking sunshades and a ragged out fat bitch with cellulites on her ass.

I never got the point of Chaps on a motorcycle. It doesn't offer protection in the one place I want a whole lot of protection. I'd prefer wearing just the part they cut out.

That would be a sight to see! :lol:

Or not.

JC

It wouldn't be a good sight. But give me the option of protecting my legs or protecting my nuts and ass then I'm going to protect my nuts and ass. I can live without legs.

Jump!
 

:whistle:

Swedish Dakar rally rider Annie Seel reports from the bivouac in Copiapo, Chile:

"At km 131 the track split around some ruins, and joined again after. To avoid dust I cut from right track over to the left, across a small rise. Behind the rise a 5m deep tomb opened, 2x3 wide. I rode to slow to jump and to fast to stop. Put breakes on, slide bike to the left and abandon ship. I managed to jump to the left edge while bike tumbled down. I am lucky not to go down cause the walls were impossible to climb.

Stopped some riders to call for help. A helicopter came and I climbed down with a thin rope to check bike, it was ok. We tried to pull the bike, but no. They said I must wait for the organisation truck to come and help. Took a while but then Mr Etienne Lavigne, race director, arrived in a helicopter instead. Like a true hero he climbed down with a rope, tied my bike with the real tie roses, and instructed the pilot how to lift it. Now I could continue the race, saved by the angel from above. Only suffering from painful swollen hand and aching foot"

http://thedakar.blogspot.com/2010/01...ly-raider.html

JC

Leave it to Jesus to resurrect the dead. :lol:

Good example.

Next time you find yourself in the middle of the desert and are confronted by a hole about 6 feet wide, the best option is to "lay it down" and throw your bike in the hole.

Well, that or ride around the hole. :idk:

I'm not sure jumping off your bike to avoid falling in a pit constitutes 'laying it down'. :lol:

Awesome story though! I espeically like how she was concerned about not being able to climb the walls, rather than bouncing off them on the way down.

Close enough for me. :lol:

JC

Agree...granted there is always going to be a situation where you cannot brake/swerve or accelerate, but the more you ride (commute) the more you realize that staying on the bike is the no. 1 priority. When you purposely lay a bike down, you chance to get run over by other vehicles. Not good.

1. Swerve and use all of the lane. A bike only requires 3 feet to clear.

Tombs? Out here, that's a prospect pit. There are thousands of them in the western US. Some mining districts have dozens of abandoned mining shafts. And some shafts are hundreds of feet deep.

Ask her, I'm not the one with a bike in a hole. :lol:

JC

In NYC those are called pot holes :lol:

Yeah, you'd have to be high to drive into that thing.

JC

In most cases you will still fly over the bike if you lay it down. I've seen it happen 3 or 4 times unless you get wedged under the bike. But then, the guardrail may slice you up (I've seen that too).

I don't agree at all. All this "it pulled out in front of me" is simply a result of not looking at what is on the side of the road.

Laying a bike down is retarded unless you are trying to go under a semi.

Son a bitch! Somebody has been tampering with the 25 years of racing I've been watching on TV, when low slides result in not "flying over the bike". What's really spooky, is that 99.9% of the low sides I saw in person, also didn't result in this miraculous flying ability. Weird...

Have you been licking toads?

Do the phrases "Blind Corner", "Blind Hill", and "Blind Driveway" ring any bells? Do you know what the word "Blind" means, right?

For someone who rides Angeles Crest, (my old stomping grounds) you must ride awfully slow if you can see what's coming behind all those big ass rocks.

JC

No two ways about it; if someone suddenly came at me with a car, I just might throw the bike at them, and hope to stay out of the resultant tangle.

You were saying to run the bike up against the guardrail. Racers don't have guard rails to hit.


I ride Ortega..not ACH. If you are flying around blind corners and a car is right there in your lane then you are gonna hit it. You can't overcome physics. It takes time to serve, but in no way would I lay it down if this occured. This IS what we are talking about.

Tell that to the guys who race Macau.

Been there, done that. The section right before you get to Lake Elisinore kicks ass. Tight as hell. Most of it blind.

Who the fuck is we?

You just said it only takes 3 feet to swerve. So which is it? If you hit something it's your fault for not seeing it, or it's impossible to not hit things you can't see?

You a funny man. :lol:

JC

I wouldn't try to lay it down regardless of the circumstances... cliff scenario, I'd hammer the brakes and perhaps jump off, but I still wouldnt try to lay the bike down...

I would say laying the bike down would be pretty easy if one were trying... rear brake like a champ and goose the bar, it'll go down... Why anyone would every want to do that is beyond me, but whatever... Stupid is as stupid does.

I'd like to know why and how the helmet got down in with the bike?

Swerve of course, but if you go around a corner and for some odd reason a car or another bike is right in your lane...then BAM...you might end up a hood ornament or if you have time to swerve then that option should be first.

That section is pretty much all we ride on Sunday. The Lookout to the bottom of the mountain. Pretty much our little free track away from home.