Police: Store clerk killed beer thief
 

Police: Store clerk killed beer thief
Juan Romero was charged Sunday with murder.

By Jeremy Schwartz, Andrea Lorenz
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Tuesday, August 18, 2009

A clerk at a Ben White Boulevard convenience store has been charged with murder after police say he shot and killed a man who was stealing a 12-pack of Budweiser early Sunday morning.

Jorge Luis Vielma, 22, and another man were on a "beer run," according to police, and attempted to flee after taking the beer. Police say Juan Romero, 23, a clerk at the Shell gasoline station at Ben White and South First Street, fired about a dozen shots at Vielma outside the store as he ran for a friend's waiting Mitsubishi Eclipse.

Vielma later died inside the car; his body was found early Sunday in the 1000 block of Mansell Avenue in East Austin.

Romero was charged Sunday with first-degree murder and was being held Monday at the Travis County Jail. His bail has been set at $250,000. If convicted, he could face up to life in prison.

According to an arrest affidavit, Vielma and a friend, David Campos, 30, were looking for a store to take beer from and settled on the Shell station. Campos told police that he parked the car while Vielma went inside for the beer. Campos said he then saw Vielma emerge running from the store and a short man with a limp in pursuit firing at him.

After Vielma made it back to the car, Campos said that he went "into shock" and drove mindlessly to Mansell Avenue, abandoned the car and fled. He later called 911 to anonymously report the shooting, according to the affidavit.

Police found the car, which was registered to Campos, shortly after 1 a.m. Sunday. When police arrived at Campos' apartment on East Oltorf Street, he was in the process of reporting his car as stolen, according to the arrest affidavit, but police said he soon admitted his role in the incident. Police didn't say whether Campos would be charged.

Police said they later interviewed Romero, who said he fired a pistol about 12 times at Vielma, picked up the shell casings and put them in his vehicle.

He also told police that he picked up the beer dropped by Vielma and threw it into a trash bin, and he deleted images of the incident from the store's video surveillance system.

Sgt. Joseph Chacon said that although Texas law allows residents to take reasonable measures to defend their property, officials determined that, "at least on the face of it," the shooting was not reasonable.

He said it did not appear that Vielma was armed at the time of the theft.

Chacon said police are still trying to determine who owned the gun used in the shooting. The store's owner, José Carranza, told police that he had not authorized Romero to use deadly force to protect the store's property.

Carranza said Monday that he did not know where Romero got the gun and that firearms are not kept in the store.

Theft, however, has been a constant problem for Carranza and his clerks, he said.

A sign taped to the door of the store addresses beer theft: "Due to the high number of dishonest people grabbing and running away (and) stealing our beer, we must require prepayment for beer."

Carranza said that people have stolen from the store at least 10 times this year and that store clerks were robbed at gunpoint four times in the past two years.

Each time, Carranza said, he was unable to get the attention of police, even though his workers were being threatened.

"I'm frustrated with police," Carranza said. "They told us that's not our priority. Now it's a priority because somebody got hurt."

Statistics from police on incident reports at that address were not immediately available.

Consulting police records, Cpl. Scott Perry said there have been several thefts, but only one report of a robbery at the store in the past two years — in November — and that the suspect in that case was not armed. A robbery is defined as threatening or causing injury in the course of committing a theft.

jschwartz@statesman.com; 912-2942

alorenz@statesman.com; 445-3972
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I think it was a little more than "got hurt."

:lol:

As far as I'm concerned when those assholes stole the beer they gave up their rights as given under the law. The clerk shouldn't go to jail because we have bleeding heart liberal laws that protect criminals.

yeah but this happened in texas, bleeding heart liberal laws don't survive very long down there. i'm surprised he was arrested. i thought the l aw says that if you kill someone in the commission of a crime you get a 12-pack and a bigger gun.

No it happened in Austin. Bleed heart liberals run this town. :wink:

agreed, but he'll should get no-billed on the killing. but may end up in troube for trying to "hide" the evidence.

i never knew...

Yeah, I just get tired of the Texas stereotypes. :shrug:

yeah, same w/ the houston stereotyping...........:lol

:lol: Touche!

I remember doing that as a teenager. If I heard stories like this I would have never thought about doing that.

I think as long as that beer was in possesion of those guys (as in they still had his store's property) then they were fair game.

Austin must be a mad house with them protesting Whole Foods.

Get used to it...Its the internet...You think I find it funny when people stereotype Jersey?

There are morons everywhere in the world...

Dude shouldn't go to jail though...Steeling beer is a Definite Crime!!!

:lol: Just because it's going to happen doesn't mean I have to like it.

And I don't stereotype Jersey because I know nothing about it. Houston on the other hand....:lol

I wasnt pin pointing you or anything...Its just something That happens.

I agree he should be charged with murder, but maybe Murder 2 at 15 years. The theif did not have a gun, nor did he pose a threat. I mean it was a 20 dollar pack of beer and he was already out of the store.

Now it is going to cost someone 10 grand to bury this guy over a 20 dollar pack of beer. Stealing alone does not constitute taking a life nor should it be tolerated.

You guys can say what you like.

But, ultimately, this piece of shit won't be stealing anything any time soon.

Agree or disagree, he won't be messing anybody's life anymore.

He got what he deserved. Anyone should be shot for purchasing american beer, let alone stealing it.

so is there a $ figure where deadly force is acceptable?

Whrere's a flow chart when you need one?

:zowned: I guess you really can't shoot any fleeing thief in Texas, unlike what some of you have claimed in the past.

Did you ever shoplift as a kid? Run out with candy? I did. Should we shoot them too?

You use deadly force when deadly force is needed. Deadly force wasn't warranted in this situation and it is the government's job to protect its citizens from vigilante justice.

He was a petty theif. He didn't hold up the place to take the beer. Haven't you ever stole anything from a store when younger? Pack of gum??

What rights? To live rights? Yeah right. They didn't show deadly force, therefore deadly force should not be used. This isn't a liberal agenda. It is a protection the government needs to uphold.

protection of thieves?

I would consider that reasonable. His actions go to mens rea and destruction of evidence is a crime. He may have to go to trial for the shooting simply because of that.

is it worth killing someone over a case of beer, you wouldn't think. but who knows, maybe clerk is also store owner and thats the XX time somebody has stolen beer........

i wouldn't think so, even if it was a "clean" shoot, atty fee's to go in ft of the grand jury are gonna cost you more then a case of beer.

texas law:

PENAL CODE
TITLE 2. GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

Sec. 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.


Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.


--------------------------------------------------------
and if he's only a clerk
--------------------------------------------------------


SUBCHAPTER D. PROTECTION OF PROPERTY
Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

And in this case he pursued, then threw away the item that was stolen. Sounds like the item in question wasn't seen to be worth defending.

Well I guess he's going to prison.

arrested and charged doesn't mean he's going to prison, it means arrested and charged.

I understand that but barring jury nullification, it sounds like he's up shit creek.

No and yes we should.

guess you didn't read any of the TX laws i posted. :?:even hilighted

So if the cable company catches someone stealing cable, they are entitled to kill the cable thief?

What about some technician over at media sentry finds someone sharing a bunch of songs on line, and they find the persons adress....its ok with you guys if he goes over at puts a bullet between the guys eyes?

Good point, Im betting most people in this thread have stolen enough music to be worth more than that case of beer.

So are personal weapons meant for protection or punishment?

in TX it's legal to kill somebody for stealing from you........songs to cars.......

i guess you think it's ok for people to steal from you. good for you i guess.

Back in the wild west days, if you were caught stealing a horse you were hung. Same should apply today. Maybe not outright murder but possibly chop a hand off though. If you made an example out of a few, I bet you'd have less thievery. I believe in being proactive and not reactive.

BTW,I have NEVER stolen anything in my life and I detest people who steal.

so we should model our criminal justice system off Iran's or Saudi Arabia?

Sure, why not? Would you steal knowing that if you were caught you'd get a hand chopped off?

I certainly did. He appears to be up shit creek because he disposed of the property showing that it was of insufficient value to invoke such a response.

AGREED, he's in trouble for tampering w/ evidence.

as for the shooting itself, it's justified in TX law.

I'm not so sure about that. What I was talking about, was how he threw away the beer that was stolen. If it wasn't worth retrieving, then it wasn't worth shooting someone over. That puts him up against a wall on a whole bunch of those statutes that you posted.

sure it's worth shooting somebody over. IMO

now is it cost effective,to shoot/kill somebody over beers, not really.

but as a retailer are you gonna sell "road rashed" beer. naw.

If you're referring to TX law, no- the law only addresses real and tangible property.

Morally it's an interesting question. Technically you're taking "something" without paying for it, but the actual losses to the rightful owner are only theoretical- you wouldn't necessarily have purchased a song or service that you took for free, you may have just done without, and the net revenue to the owner would be exactly the same. So i would say no.

e-thugs in this thread, lol.........You can say "hooray for him" all you want, but something makes me doubt you'd have done the same if you were the clerk

Your right, I would have drug them back in the store and placed a knife in each of their dead hands before the cops showed up.

I would have wanted to due mainly to all of the prior robberies and thefts but honestly...you're right...I wouldn't have shot him over beer. A beat down...absolutely if possible...taser...sure. :lol:

I'm not an e-thug...just saying... :lol:

Oh Rider, you're so macho.

Macho has nothing to do with it. I have an extremely low tolerance for thievery.

So have any of you guys downloaded music illegally? Snuck into a movie without paying? Cheated on your taxes?

No, No, and No.

Totally.

And I am guessing he would change his tune if someone shot his kid for stealing a piece of gum from the store. :rolleyes: You gotta be kidding me....

My kids don't steal. They know how I feel about stealing and they wouldn't do it. Why do you condone stealing so much? Do you agree that stealing happens far more often them murder? Why do you think that is? Because the punishment is less or do you think that they have higher moral standards? I guarantee you that people steal because the punishment is a hand slap. Now if you tell them that if you get caught stealing, you loose a hand, then you will have much less theft. You need a punishment that will deter people from being asshats. Loss of life or limb is a pretty good reason not to steal.

By all means, let's go for Sharia Law and stop all the stealing. OFF WITH THEIR HANDS!

I'm all for it.

I don't condone stealing, I just think you are full of it. :wink: I don't have all the answers, therefore I do not make ridiculous claims about what I would do, or what should be done in this or any instance.

If you found out your kid stole something, are you going to cut off thier hand? No. No you aren't. And not because you would go to jail, but because it's your kid and you'd have to be a pretty sick fuck to cut off your own kids' hand, or to allow someone else to do it.

You don't know me or my kids so stop making ill informed statements.

:lol

I'm just claiming BS, that's all. :D

Well how dare you say that he wouldn't cut off his kid's hand, if he caught him stealing?

;)

So you'd be alright cutting off your kids hand?

What if you caught your neighbors kid stealing? Would you like the laws to change so that you could take a machete to your neighbors kid?

Notice he did not answer the question of how we would feel if someone shot his kid. Saying "my kids don't steal" isn't good enough. What if they did? I don't know how old your kids are, but I highly doubt their personality & values will remain the same forever.

His Kids will never "rebel" or be influenced by friends or get caught up "screwing around for shits and giggles" because they know that dad walks around with an axe.

First punk tries to take his garden gnome as a prank...Rider is breaking out the guillotine.

That's right, because kids never rebel against their parents.

You are ill informed, so you are not allowed to speak buddy.

Break 'em off sumthin' real propa-like.

Gots mad discipline fo dat ass.

Whatever. I have better things to do like read soldier of fortune magazine than converse with you fools.


























:lol

Protection of life.

Yeah I guess that is why the police charged the guy with murder...because it was legal in TX.

I'm calling B.S....because ur full of shit.

You don't kill people over some simple materialistic thing because the crime does not fit the punishment. We imprison people and put people to death for murder and guess what? There is still murder. These punishments don't deter murder, because most murder is spontaneous, not premeditated.

Cutting off people's hands and stuff is fine and all, but now you have a bunch of handicapped people who are going to contribute much less to society than previously. Good plan. Not.

The power to pardon is more admirable IMO than the power to punish. People are stealing because they usually cannot afford what they are taking, not necessarily because they are intrusively bad people.

protection of a thiefs rights? IMO they have no rights

does he have rights if he's an illegal alien thief? just checkin

i bet you believe the crooks has more rights then the victim, it' ok in CA to admit it........

becuase he charged, he's automatically guilty?

remember this was beer, not bread or milk.......he stole cuz he didn't want to pay.....

Comments 1 and 3 are directly at odds.

He has rights. He has rights even if he's an illegal. Those rights involve not being 'guilty' until having been found so, in a court of law.

in this case it's a dead mans word vs a live one.........so who was right, the live guy automatically.........lol

"He has rights even if he's an illegal" yeah, we see how well thats going here, almost ever officer killed in houston this yrs has been killed by an illegal........yeah!

Yeah, the live guy who saw a need to destroy evidence.

They have the right to a trial after which, if found guilty, they have a right to fry or spend a lifetime behind bars. Those are still rights.

yeah,it's shame it takes so long to fry somebody, costing tax payers lotsa $ for illegal alien murderers.

at least in TX we have an express lane vs the rest of the states......:lol (and it still takes 7-8-9-10yrs)

Learn how to spell ass nuts. And I'm not full of shit, I've never stolen anything in my life. You can believe it or not I don't give a fuck.

Get caught stealing once, you chop off 1 hand, you get caught stealing twice you get killed because you are now a burden to society.

:lol

harsh! do it!!!

I'm confused...

Are you asking him to work on his spelling or is it a direct request for him to spell "Ass nuts" for you?

If the latter...
etymology - 16th century "Ahznaught"

Yes we know.

Considering this comment came from a cannibal...

(..and what exactly do you plan on doing with all these hacked off limbs you plan on collecting from your neighbors children?)

Beat you senseless with them. Ask a serious question now.

Tejas has it's own constitution. :lol

Hey, asshat, you didnt answer the question... Would you cut off your kids hand if they stole a pack of gum?

Funny thing is, as tough as you pretend to be, you'd probably lay down and roll over when shit got violent. Most people who talk the talk, do so praying they'll never have to walk it, because they cant...

But, by all means, keep it up. You amuse me.

yeah, his comments yesterday literally brightened my day. :D thanks Rider for your ridiculous and hilarious statements. :dthumb:

Whatever dipshit. Crawl back to your hole now.

Awww... Princess.. Did your buthole get hurt?

The only hole around here big enough for me to crawl in might be your faggoty ass, and unfortunately for you, I want no part of that. Is that where your gonna store all those hands your gonna cut off?

Why dont you go pick on some kids? They really are the only people your fooling...

:lol

Awww... Princess... You really are hurt...

He sent me an 'infraction' :lol

:lol:

There's a joke about a "reach around" in there somewhere but I'm not gonna be the one to dig for it.

Wait? Can I send you an infraction for calling me a dipshit? How does this work...

:blowup:

Haha! That prick does that every time somebody calls him on his shit.

:lol

Report the post :lol:

SBN take 2

I think he cut that ability off from my account... Musta thought it was my hand...

I went ahead and reported 2 of his posts

One for use of naughty words and the other for threatening to beat people with the severed hands of children.

Knock off the bullshit reporting.

I mean it.

Oh, and play nice. Buncha babies....

Its just getting good!

And he started it!

:lol

I was just walking by minding my own business when suddenly...

Respect the pseudo authoritay!

I have an uncontrollable urge to report this post. :didntdo: