Oh, Ladies?
 

So, I've spent a lot of the summer giving private motorcycle coaching to folks with fear issues; 'cept a disturbing pattern has emerged:
A. All of the folks who answered my ads were female.
B. All of the folks having issues had large displacement (750cc and up) FIRST bikes.
C. All were of petite (under 5'4") stature.
D. All had dropped said bike MULTIPLE times at starts and/or stops before contacting me.
E. All had sailed through the MSF course on 250cc bikes and had approached having their own bike with gleeful anticipation...until the dropping started.
F. All of the bikes were set up properly for said riders;i.e they had been lowered or were naturally lower so that the riders could flat-foot it; tippy-toeing was not the issue.
G. All had SEVERE issues with clutch/throttle coordination on their own bike, but had non during MSF (250cc) training.
H. All had severe difficulty holding/maneuvering there bikes in an "engine off" mode; i.e. backing the bike out of a parking space, shoving the bike around the garage, ect.

I am going to make some crass generalizations based on this limited (about 16 or so) sample, keeping in mind that I wasn't around for the initial time when the problems developed, so I have to go on what I've been told by the individuals which may or may not be factual but there are enough similarities to draw some conclusions.

Each of these ladies was motivated, and were accomplished (many in the nursing/medical/emt field...go figure) and were not bashful wallflowers...they WANTED to ride. Each was willing to do what was required to get there. I had MANY responses to the ads I ran, but only a few folks actually carried through to do the training/coaching.

All got into trouble (in my opinion) because they chose, large, heavy bikes as first bikes. It wasn't that the they couldn't handle them, it's that they went from small and easy to handle bikes in 8 hrs of training to large, heavy bikes without the opportunity to build muscle groups and train their bodies in using leverage and balance rather than strength. I suggested that while they may have wanted to skip the "stepping-stone" bikes, they may have made it harder for themselves getting the "goal" bike as a first bike

I'll go into more detail as I have time, but just want some feedback into how it went for you and do you wish you'd done things differently?

Well, I can honestly say I had none of these problems

That being said, riding has never come easily for me. Some people take to it instantly and it was never that way for me. I am an accomplished and competent rider. But I work at that and it wasn't an easy peasy road.

I chose a bike that was somewhat heavier (although not a pig by any means). It was a good deal and it worked out.

I was fine during MSF and took my time practising.

I'm 5'6" so I've never had a bike lowered and never will likely.

My one downfall is moving bikes around in an "engine off" situation. I basically suck at this and always have. A friend forced me to practice with my first bike but it's never gotten any easier.

I've recently made some gains in that department just out of necessity from being at the track and moving the bike around a lot. But I'll never find it "comfortable" the way other people seem to.

:shrug:

Do you know any women locally that are accomplished riders that could teach with you? Sometimes all it takes is for a woman to see another woman do that same thing to get over the nerves. Women can get it in our heads that we can't do something because we are too small or weak. Maybe seeing another woman push her bike around would help. I am 5'1" and have no problems backing my 400lb bike up while walking next to it (can't while on it) but was nervous as hell before I saw others do it.

Just my $0.02

Cue Racer X:

"Start small".

How's your female training?

Did your GF ever get out on the RT?

Everyone will say "I'm glad I did it the way I did it" even though they probably would have become a better rider if they had done it differently.

Actually, I got a little PW80 to make it even easier (no clutch).

Took her out once, and kept it to the pavement on my street (which is pretty deserted, and off the beaten path, thus is relatively safe). She managed to get it about a half mile down the road, and back without incident that first time.

Later, AMJ took her out a bit, to try and hit some trails (he rode the RT). She didn't fare so well, and managed to dump it twice. Once just coming in the driveway, where she decided to turn in the sand at the apron, rather than attack the transition at 90 degrees like anyone with a fucking clue.

AMJ pronounced her unfit for two wheels, and she's been grounded.

Sharp as a fucking bowling ball...

:shrug:

You arent being crass, they got bikes that are too large without the experience necessary to deal with them in terms of manuevering, riding, and being able to control it at a stopped or off position.

I did EXACTLY the same thing when I started riding. I was dying for a "cool" bike, and at the time, 250 ninjas were "ugly" and I was told I'd grow out of it too fast, I didnt know about buells and no one was around to help me out. I bought the 600RR, 1st gen tank, and within an hour of owning it dropped it on myself in the driveway and my street 3 times. It was too tall for my 5'2", too unwieldy for someone who had never ridden anything bigger than a bicycle and in all just wasn't a great idea. But I've been accused of being stubborn a few times.

I went to a dealer within the week and bought myself a cheap ugly 250, and learned to ride on it. Took the MSF on it, rode it on the streets for a few months until I was comfortable (or at least I thought so with my big girl panties) with the whole "riding" thing and then went back to my 600 which was still too big. I honestly wish I'd held onto the 250 longer to have improved my skills but I was ready for a big girl bike.

As far as being able to handle my "measly" 600 or the larger bikes I've had the pleasure to play with, it's been a matter of experience and time. I can get off my bike and others and back it up, tho I prefer to do so on the seat, as I feel overbalanced and uncomfortable otherwise, but I can do it, its just a matter of getting balanced right and leaning it more into me, versus keeping it straight up where it can tip either way.

For me, it came down to seat time and experience. Today, Im comfortable on pretty much any bike, but I should have started out smaller and spent more time on it.

I am 5’3” and started out with a Buell Blast. I never once dropped it. I have dropped every bike I have owed since even though they have all been lowered. Too much front brake and a slightly turned wheel always caused my first drops. Luckily now most of my drops are in the dirt but my poor GS is starting to hate me. :lol:

I don’t think starting out on a smaller bike is necessarily going to stop the drops when they transfer to a larger bike but I do think they would have a lot less anxiety about it.

I rode my baby ninja daily for over a year before moving up and I'm relatively tall. So, I didn't have too many issues.

Hokie is right though...all it takes is seeing another woman do it and they'll figure it out I think....maybe...most of them anyway.

Glad you qualified that. I seem to have found one that can't.

:shrug:

Common age?

All over the board....early twenties to fifties and everywhere in between. Gay. straight, mono, bi....doesn't seem to matter....all were of the same characteristics above.

The one overriding characteristic was the determination to RIDE. I think there are a LOT of women out there that I'll never see that rode a bit and dropped it and gave up...didn't have the desire to succeed that these women do.

I don't so much as direct them what to do as I do ask A LOT of questions about there riding experiences good and bad, watch how they operate the bikes and then feed back to them both what I see and postulate as to what led to their crashing. We then analyze the fear response together and work out a plan to overcome the glitches that lead to the fear, which leads to the fall.

Let me reiterate; all the drops were at VERY low(walking) speeds or coming to a stop or starting out, but the effect on their riding was all-encompassing: all speeds, all conditions, all the time they lost confidence and riding became a harrowing and un-fun experience.

This whole summer has firmed up my belief that stepped or tiered licensing has merit. (There it is: now all the folks that bought 1000's as a first bike- it's your time to chime in about how full of crap I am).

You are full of crap! i learned on a 500 but I'm sure i could have ridden a CBXR10000RRXX without a problem, and competantly from day 1

I'll be the first to admit I was nervous as hell when I started riding. Maybe the other ladies will agree with me...maybe they won't but I felt like EVERYONE was staring at me while I was learning to ride. I think people in cars (and bikes) are often curious about female riders and tend to gawk. I almost had one guy slam into a stopped car in the next lane over cause he was staring a couple weeks. ago. Now I just laugh but when learning, it made me very self contious. There really is nothing they can do about that but focus and practice.

Another thing that often makes women nervous, me included was whether I could pick my own bike up if needed. There is nothing more nerve racking than tiping over while out alone and not being able to pick it up. Or tipping over at a busy intersection and needing spectators to help you pick your bike up. Women that get into riding are often very independant and I hated the thought that I would need to stand there and beg for help to get my bike out of the way if I tipped (luckily never did on the street, just parking lots). Ask them if this is a fear they have and if that would like to learn to pick their bike up. Teach them the reverse technique were you use your butt to walk the bike back up. This may help build their confidence. There are great videos on youtube showing this technique. Practicing this on the grass shouldn't hurt the bike.

It's the VERY first thing I demonstrate. We go to a grassy spot, I lay their bike down, and then show and allow them to push it back up........... It also works very well for olde guyes with bad backs.

You know, OTB I think you're onto something. I notice more and more on demos that women apologize up front for "holding up the line" or wanting to be in the back. I talk to them a bit to [if anything] calm their nerves, and explain if I move them in the line I won't move the bikes in the line as they are in that order for a reason. Very rarely do they actually hold up the line - or do they even show up on my radar as a leader.

Hokie touched on it too - women are very aware of being watched. Trying to assure a woman again and again at a trackday that instructors are there to work with you, not to watch and make fun of your riding.

Very true. I used to ride at the back on group rides because I didn't want people watching me. Now that I have more confidence I don't care where I am. The track helped with this a lot.

I recently golfed with a girl who wouldn't shoot unless we were all looking away and no one else was around. :skep: I wanted to scream "GET OVER IT" but I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have helped. :lmao:

It's true...

Some people are just not cut out to ride motorcycles.

Your girlfriend is one of those people. :lol:

JC

I don't know if the feeling of being watched is the issue as much as the need to apologize. I find with many female riders this constant need to apologize for ANY mistakes. I find that self-deprecating humor on my part can dispel some of this.

By the same token, most of these women are professionally ACCOMPLISHED and well-educated. You can tell that they are used to doing what needs to be done, yet they are embarrassed about difficulties they may be having.

I have always explained that riding is counter-intuitive for most and that some of the skills they are learning are more UNlearning old habits;.... and that you can't know what you don't know...that's why they call it LEARNING,.... and that's what makes riding so FUN...the constant ability to keep learning throughout one's life, as long as you keep riding.....

For me, learning to ride has not been an event (THERE! Now I know how to ride!) rather, a lifelong journey.

But that's likely because I'm a slow learner, so take it all with a grain of salt.

If they start to apologize (which is still a sign of insecurity, self contiousness) tell them what is there to apologize for? Learning to ride a motorcycle is a exactly what you said, a life long lesson. They will be mistakes a long the way, more in the begining and less as your skills advance. Both men and women experience the same issues with drops, stalls etc and there is no need to apologize for something that is expected to happen while learning. Tell them no more apologies. Big girl panties people!!

My first bike was a Yamaha V-Star 1100. I bought it with cash from the sale of a house. I was so nervous about riding (NEVER rode before) that I had them put the bike on a trailer for me. When I Got it home I sat beside the trailer for a good 2 or 3 HOURS trying to get up the courage to back it off. It took me an hour of sitting on the bike, getting almost to the ramp, pushing the bike forward again (I can just imagine what the neighbors were thinking...perhaps drinking a beer or three while watching) before I could complete the task.

After pushing the bike into the garage I looked at it for another 1/2 hour or so before backing it out and going for a tentative ride around the parking lot of the apartment complex. See, I had the MSF class scheduled for the next week and had to RIDE it to the class!

I think my job as an H-60 flight mechanic helped me a great deal. My job involves using leverage to maneuver two soaking wet people on the end of a hoist dangling outside the helicopter door to the inside of the cabin. This is something I have never been able to do using strength alone. Never happen.

Learning to ride a motorcycle took similar mental preparation. Knowing I didn't have to dead lift the 650 lbs of bike helped too.

If you talk w/ them before they get lessons, tell them to go out a ride a bicycle as fast as they can and start swerving and turning and weaving.

In other words, start REALLY small...

:lmao:

Here's my experience:

I'm tiny, and everyone that has met me so far can vouch for it. In fact I am probably tinier than I really believe I am. I am barely 5'2" but its not the height, I am also really slim. I am now 105 lbs but when I started riding, I was about 95lbs so I don't have a ton of strength.

Like Rae, I didn't want a 250 because it was ugly and I thought I would outgrow it. I didn't know anyone else that rode so no one was there to give me any advice. My first bike was a ninja 500. Power was never an issue on any of the bikes I have owned, but the ninja 500 was really really top heavy for me. The dealership lowered the rear but not the front so I could flat foot it. The first time I took it out, I dropped it down the block. I met someone that rode from work so he would have me ride around his neighborhood at night. I dropped the bike a couple more times but no biggie. Then I moved back to NY and with the slow stop and go traffic, potholes and dense traffic, it was really hard for me to learn since slow maneuvers was where I felt the weight of the bike.

I sold that and got an SV650S because it was lighter. But I wasn't any better of a rider :lol: so I was still scared. I could only tiptoe now so that didn't make me anymore confident. Mostly because I didn't have the balance down for stopping and other slow speed stuff.

I downgraded and got a 200 cc dual sport and later sold the SV. I could still only barely tip toe but it was light and I was upright I had much more leverage. I rode that around for a couple of years and did some light trail riding on it. I didn't ride alot because I moved to Vegas shortly after and I really couldn't do any highway riding since I would be forced to be on the right lanes doing a max of 65mph downhill so it was more of a weekend toy. But I rode enough locally, and backroads that I was comfortable and was ready for an upgrade. I also learned to maneuver the bike pretty easily standing next to it, but don't have the reach to really back it up sitting on it.

The dual sport solved my bike dropping issues too :lol: I have only dropped it wiping out in the dirt but in my head that doesn't count :lol:

I recently got another SV, standard this time and see a big difference in how my skills have progressed after riding around in the dual sport. I still can barely touch the ground, but I have learned to balance it which was my biggest challenge before. On all the other bikes, once I am going I am fine, its always been the the slow stuff and stopping. Its a little difficult for me to push it around when I am not on it due to the weight difference but I am sure I will be fine as I push it more often.

The 2 SV's and dual sport are not lowered but I have shaved the seat on the both SV's.

If I had to do things differently I would have started on the dual sport.

Like the others have said, its difficult being watched. I don't like or want the extra attention. I have had people notice I am a girl from behind and come swerving around next to me to take a closer look.

Also I am quite independent, half accomplished :lol:, educated and usually pick things up really quickly. But its been really hard picking up motorcycling skills. Its the only thing I have ever had trouble learning. Its been upsetting at times and hurtful to my pride and ego. But I guess something has to keep me humble :lol:

Sometimes it seems like to me, its been so easy for the other girls on this forum (or CF) to become really great riders. So its been inspiring in many ways but sometimes it makes me feel bad that motorcycling didn't come naturally to me. But I am a lot further along then I was when I first started out :) and since I have the SV now and can go further, I can ride a lot more miles to get in a lot more practice.

the miles are really what does it for you Gina. I always tell people when they buy their "beginner bike" put a good 10,000 miles on it before you upgrade. I know that sounds like a lot but it allows you to experience ALL of the obsticles you will encounter riding as well as learn how to change tires, oil etc if you choose to. I rode my ninja 250 for almost 30,000miles and my skills took off once I really started to pack the miles on. the step up to the 750 was hard at first just cause it was SOO much faster but after my first season it came really fast and now I"m as at home on that bike going fast as I am in my car (maybe more so). I have about 50,000 miles motorcycle experience now and I am still learning new things every day. I still have things to work on. But that is what is so great about riding. It is a life time hobby that you can keep getting better at no matter how long you participate.

:lol: Gina that is so true. I forget how small I am too until faced with something or someone that reminds me. Some days I swear Im at least 5'6" and ready to take on the world. Then when I can't do something I feel so small, its frustrating.

I will say something for my fellow ladies, perhaps they noticed as they got started, maybe not, but OTB it might help you if you do more than one on one instruction or can be something to recommend.

When I started riding there were very few women riders, heck, there still arent very many, but out of the 4 that I knew of back in FL, only 1 was what I would consider a real rider. Meaning she rode to RIDE, she didnt ride to show off todays cute thong in her sweatsuit with SEXY on the ass. I idolized her. And was terrified of her. She took one look at me, and yes, I admit, I can look pretty girly, and pretty much sniffed, and turned her back on me. She judged me as one of the girls who just wanted to get attention for sitting on a bike at Sonic. I'll tell ya, it hurt. I wanted to learn from her, being the only real female rider around. Fortunately I didnt let it stop me, and I had friends that were in the same group she was in, and I was able to learn from all of them as a good few were CCS and WERA experienced, and eventually she realized I wanted to RIDE and we became pretty good friends and still are to this day.

I am always reminded when meeting a new rider, be it female or not that as a more experienced rider we have the ability to help these new guys along and that they all deserve a chance, regardless of what they do with it. But this holds especially true with females because motorcycling isnt "our" world, its predominantly male, and if you can take 5 minutes to offer your support, friendship and advice as a fellow female, it can go a Loooooooooong way.

My first bike was a Gixxer 750, I learned to ride on a dirt bike in a field and then borrowed a friends 250 for about a month to ride on the street. My boyfriend at the time actually bought it first and when he left for the Navy it became mine a few years later.

I was used to bikes so I didn't really have too many issues handling it. I did drop it once early on and couldn't get it up by myself. After a nice passerby helped and then quickly commented that if I couldn't handle it, maybe I shouldn't be riding it, I also learned how to pick it up. That valuable lesson as come in handy several times over the years. I think the confidence in being able to pick it up is the best lesson you can give a female rider. Because if you KNOW you can pick it up and go then there's really nothing that can happen you can't handle.

People will always stare, you're a girl on a bike it's inevitable.....get over it and who cares....

I noticed that the skills are coming a lot faster now that I can ride for longer stretches (and at higher speeds) until my butt gets sore. I can get in the mileage in a couple of days max what it would take me to do in a month on the dual sport. The SV is pretty comfortable overall since I am not hunched over, and I find that I actually do like longer rides. I have to put A LOT of seat time in to be where I would like to be.

I love my SV though and I am poor, so I won't be upgrading anytime soon :D

What are you suggesting, Rae?
More , Please.

I cant seem to put it clearly...

Basically for my fellow riders to remember when you were new and dont dismiss any female who wants to learn to ride just because you dont think they want to be "real" riders. And for you to maybe pass that along to your students.

Play it forward perhaps?

To this day I can't convince my wife to actually ride rather than be a passenger. She's convinced she just can't.

one day I will get her into the MSF at the very least.

I understand how a lot of guys want their SO's to ride so they can share their passion. But why do men try to convince their SO to ride if they really don't want to or are not all that interested.

Every guy I know that tried to get his wife/ SO to ride or the wife/SO wanted to learn to ride for their man, got licensed and got a bike never kept up with it and have a bike sitting collecting dust in the garage.

yup, i've had alot of women pressured into class, most didn't do well.

ed here


hey 'tard we see how well your teaching methods went, STFU

Fuck you Ed; PW80...that's starting small, ain't it?

:lmao:

For the record, I started her on a BICYCLE.

The simple fact is, some aren't meant to ride. My GF is one of those.

:shrug:

i started out riding on a YSR50. i thought i was 'the shit' buzzing around town on this glorified pocket rocket. after about a year on that i finally moved up to a ninja 250. owned that for a few years before selling it to go to art school. fast forward a few years and 2 kids later...time to ride again. so i buy another ninja 250 and keep that for 2 years before i even consider my worthy of something bigger. i eventually worked up to the 636 i own today, and lemme tell ya i was terrified to pick it up from the dealer. i was sure it was gonna be too tall/fast for me. i have managed fine on it. never dropped it or anything. but i am still incredibly intimidated by it.

i do know when a bike is just to much for me to handle though. i acquired a harley 'street rod' a few years ago and loved that thing to death. however, it's seat height was much taller than the other v-rods and too much for my short stature. that and it's massive weight convinced me to downsize to the much more rider-friendly nightster. i must say that i never experience anxiety on that bike when i ride it, even though i do on the sportbike. perhaps it's the laid-back riding style. i feel more in control than crouching over the tank. it is an issue i still deal with today.

i must also admit that i don't really care for riding with other people, even though i desire to do so. i want the company, but i always feel like people are critiquing my riding or that i am pressured to ride outside my comfort zone. definately on the 636. harley rides usually go a slower pace so that is a bit less stressful for me. but i always worry about what others think. i want to be a good rider. i just don't know if i actually am. i also don't ride all that often. most times i feel dumb even being a member here, like i don't belong because my bike is an '04 with probably less than 4000 miles on it. i feel like i am a poser or something.

I started on a 250 Ninja and feel it was the best for me (looking back hubby said he would have started me on something other than the 250). I feel it allowed me to build the necessary skills that come more naturally for me now on the 600. I think if I would have started on something larger (physically) I wouldn't be as good of a rider. I would have too many things to try and work on - riding, balancing, touching (or not), etc..

I also think having my 600 for 6 weeks then going to the track really helped my confidence and skills. It allowed me to learn that bike right from the start in a controlled environment.

I get nervous at poker runs, because most of them around here are 99% Harley/cruiser riders, so any sport bike that shows up gets looked at... Kawi green doesn't help nor does a girl riding one. I really feel the stares. But I've gotten to the point that I don't care any more, I'm riding.

I think the best thing I learned or maybe hubby shared with me is paying attention to situations you are getting into. Example, I rode his ZX9 one time to get my hair done. The parking lot is on a hill and I thought I'd be better off parking to the down hill. When I went to leave I quickly learned that trying to back up a 440lb bike UP HILL wasn't as easy as if I would have parked that way to start (and backed down hill). Thank God for those gay grab handles on that bike. I remember this each time I ride the bike to get my hair done, park on the up hill. Any where I go I scan the area and quickly run through situations; if I do this, such and such will happen or if I do that, something else will happen. Some times I guess right and some times I guess wrong, but the wrongs I learn two things from 1.) not doing again and 2.) how to get myself out of the situation.

Methinks your opinion is right.

I got out of the moto scene for nearly 15-years after 10-years of riding (but wasn't instructed properly - too kool for skool back then). Thankfully some wisdom seeped in and I decided to take the MSF basic course. Taught me a great many things I never learned the first ten years of riding.

Went out and bought me the BMW Rockster. The damn thing was tall (32" seat height) with high center of gravity AND a wet weight of around 600-lbs.

I was as careful as I could be and I dropped that mutha three times within the first week. Couldn't balance it because I wasn't used to the weight and the awkward handling of a bike that is much bigger and heavier than the 250 Nighthawk I rode in MSF course.

Well, women are weak and generally inferior in all ways, what did you expect?

:lol: we are the keeper of the vagina though, so at least we have the upper hand there.

You're not the only one's though.

I saw one in a big jar at the Smithsonian.

JC

But we don't have to put up with your shit... we'll just move on to the next vagina that is easier or a just a good hooker so that when we're done we're done. Good bye.

well, if ya ain't gettin' it i'm sure there is valid reason why. in that case it'd be good riddance. :D

I won't ever understand this mentality. You're right though, withholding the box from someone as a means to getting what you want is exactly what everyone should want in a relationship.

Pfffffffffffft.

Especially since there are more single women than men in this world.

If you wanna create an embargo, there's always someone else available to easily replace you, and gladly so.

Women need to stop acting like having sex with us is a favor.

withholding sex is like punishing yourself too....

Well, you guys have all that battery backup...

only stating this in reference of being made the inferior sex. simply saying i have what boys want. therefore i have the upperhand in one aspect of life at least.

geez, you people are waaaaay too literal.

Ok.

Play that game and you are inferior. You can keep the boys, I'm more in to men.

Some "boys" may want plastic tits, spray-on tan, and a "I have the golden pussy" attitude, but I don't.

I prefer a more natural woman, who is comfortable with her own body, and sexuality, and doesn't even think to use it as a weapon.

YMMV.

:scared:

Off topic but that is so true. Sometimes you run into boys who pretend to be men, then you find out later they are little BOYS!

That's the one with the glitter, isn't it?

JC

Sometimes you run into girls pretending to be women, and your ass goes to jail.

JC

This is why a low mileage, slightly older used model is always superior.

Troof

$200,000 after tax gift that I can dump into my mortgage no strings attached?

Vajazzled?

Classic.

men...boys...they're all only good for one thing. $$$$ there isn't anything either one can do for me that i can't do for myself. :)

yup, got that too. ;)
hey now! my boobs may be fake but my tan is 100% natural sunlight. :D

I accept cash, checks, and paypal ;)

:lol: the check is in the mail.

This thread went from girls having a hard time riding to vajazzled pussies and fake tits (which are cool if not overdone). Wow

Woot! equity here I come :lol:

Sunshine!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Xvpi...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqdSy...eature=related

:lol:

Its all e-clitoris until that first heavy box.

Its up to you to decide whether we talk about moving or obesity.

I just wanted to be part of this thread.

Exactly....

No offense... but this is what I'm saying... the girl with the "I have the pussy so you jump thru hoops" mentality is automatically left behind for a much funner girl like skiergirl. She knows the sex is the fun so find something you like and have it.


But the boys have what you want too... or maybe not and that's why you can run life this way.

Bottom line is this... you have pussy and we have cock. Now granted if you pull too much attitude your ball bearing filled, gas powered, super vibrator plus may be able to get you off, but it still won't be as good as some expierenced, blood filled cockola. Unless you're into wymen then... welll... can I watch?

I'll still take the plastic tits as long as she's good with it and doesn't present attitude.

The wife and I from the begining run a very simple few things. Be honest, up front, and straight forward. No BS, no games, no lies. Why cloud life with all the added bs?

ok, i admit it.

my lame pussy joke = epic failure

now to go banish myself to the farthest corner of the internetz galaxy. :sorry:

Not to derail everybody from shiney vajayjays and silicon valley.... but fnfalman, that bike in the left picture of your sig has a 32" seat height???? No way, that thing looks hella short in the picture. Especially compared to the Tuono next to it. :idk: