want a 600cc SS bike for a first bike?

[ceo012384]

Originally Posted by anthonyk

It's dependent on the person, but from what I've seen the majority of people are in that middle "will do alright but have trouble along the way" group. Having a bike that's really unforgiving of mistakes will stack the odds against them, and likely cause them to get into trouble when they might not have on a more forgiving bike. Add in the folks who would crash whatever bike they'd get on, and you don't have too many people left who would be just fine starting on an R6 (or whatever). And who can identify those folks over the internet?

I'd like to see some numbers that show that crashing has no relation to the displacement or type of bike. I'm not buying it.

I don't have numbers, but just think about it:

How do most newbies crash?

It's coming into a turn a little quicker than they're comfortable with and panicking, it's target fixation and running wide, it's have a stiff upper body and tucking the front, it's panic braking and locking up either tire, etc etc etc.

They are input/technique/mental errors that would occur on any bike.

It's not powering out of a turn and highsiding the fuck out of themselves, or doing a 150mph wheelie on a busa into a truck, or other power related errors. Those things DO happen, but just consider what most of the crashes newbs have are caused by.






But like you said (and I said previously), since it's hard to judge people by a few posts on the web, I suppose the start small advice is good advice. However the reasoning for it has never jived with me.

Also, I think the type of person who will do alright on a 600 isn't the type of person who will go on the internet looking for some positive reinforcement about their decision. I took my MSF, did a TON of research and reading, and went and bought my bike. End of story. It was a little while later that I joined some forums.

[Mr Lefty]

Originally Posted by ceo012384

Also, I think the type of person who will do alright on a 600 isn't the type of person who will go on the internet looking for some positive reinforcement about their decision. I took my MSF, did a TON of research and reading, and went and bought my bike. End of story. It was a little while later that I joined some forums.

I did the same... but part of that research was to ask fellow riders what they thought... no that a total stranger was going to change my opinion... but if the vast majority said "wrong move" then I'd have re thought my approach. but true... I wasn't in it for positive reinforcement... but just to honestly make sure I wasn't way off base.

[Rsv1000R]

Originally Posted by ceo012384

How do most newbies crash?

It's coming into a turn a little quicker than they're comfortable with and panicking, it's target fixation and running wide, it's have a stiff upper body and tucking the front, it's panic braking and locking up either tire, etc etc etc.

They are input/technique/mental errors that would occur on any bike.

True, but a 250 ninja is going to be giving lots more feedback to the rider that he's going fast at 70 mph than a 600SS will. That's what makes them safer.

[umairhashmi]

I love ninja 250s. I can sell them to a newbie and make my cut from the sale and usually they are back within a couple of months to buy a 600 and then i can make my cut AGAIN from the same person. How could i not love a bike that repeatedly puts money in my pocket. Although customer satisfaction is a different story...

[101lifts2]

Originally Posted by umairhashmi

I love ninja 250s. I can sell them to a newbie and make my cut from the sale and usually they are back within a couple of months to buy a 600 and then i can make my cut AGAIN from the same person. How could i not love a bike that repeatedly puts money in my pocket. Although customer satisfaction is a different story...

Sell them a 1000 first...then after they wad it up, you can tell them that they prolly should have started on a 600. This way you make more$$$ then putting a 250 in their hands first.

You can thank me later...lol

[umairhashmi]

Originally Posted by 101lifts2

Sell them a 1000 first...then after they wad it up, you can tell them that they prolly should have started on a 600. This way you make more$$$ then putting a 250 in their hands first.

You can thank me later...lol

I try to avoid that but most kids who walk in looking for a 1k,busa or zx14 have already made up their minds so they dont listen so i just end up giving it to them. I think its a great way of controlling the overpopulation crisis

[OreoGaborio]

Originally Posted by umairhashmi

I try to avoid that but most kids who walk in looking for a 1k,busa or zx14 have already made up their minds so they dont listen so i just end up giving it to them. I think its a great way of controlling the overpopulation crisis

Ya gotta explain it in terms they'll understand, like HP to Weight ratio. (most people know that kinda stuff from drag racing and if they don't it's an easy enough concept for them to grasp w/ a little explanation.)

Ask them to name a really fast car.... Typically they'll name a car that weighs probably 2500 lbs and has about 500 hp or so..... If they don't pick something that sounds like that, pick a car for them that does :P

Then tell em that car, at 500hp and 2500lbs has roughly 5lbs per hp....

Then tell em that your average literbike puts out almost 200hp (at the crank.... makes more of an impact than RWHP) & weighs about 400lbs (without them on it, but don't tell them that ) which translates to only 2lbs per hp... More than twice as much hp per pound than their supercar and probably 10 times as difficult to control since it takes a completely different set of skills to operate.

Does that sound like something that's safe to learn on?

That usually puts things in perspective for them and it worked like a charm for me this past weekend when I had a kid in my MSF class tell me he wanted a CBR1k.... he's now looking at older used 600's or 650 twins.

The next day he said he walked into a dealership & the salesman tried talking him into a ZX14 even after he told him it would be his first bike... he said he won't be going back there anytime soon.

[umairhashmi]

Originally Posted by OreoGaborio

the salesman tried talking him into a ZX14 even after he told him it would be his first bike... he said he won't be going back there anytime soon.

I think the Zx14 was on the manufacturer's "Hit List" for the month. Thats an extra $250 bucks on top of your regular commission so i can see why the salesman tried that which is understandable from a business perspective but i wouldnt do it. But then again i dont make a lot of money either so maybe i should start doing the same thing or start looking for a new job

[Smittie61984]

Originally Posted by umairhashmi

I try to avoid that but most kids who walk in looking for a 1k,busa or zx14 have already made up their minds so they dont listen so i just end up giving it to them. I think its a great way of controlling the overpopulation crisis

How do these 18year old kids working at Autozone or Quick Lube afford these brand new litre bikes? When I was looking for my 1st bike it was a KLR650 dual sport and I found one for $4700 and I had $2000 cash to put down on it and they still wouldn't approve me at 23years old. But I never got a loan on anything at that point but neither have those 18-20year olds.

Only approval I got was for a brand new FZ6 with 21% interest (I laughed at that rate and walked out).

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by Smittie61984

How do these 18year old kids working at Autozone or Quick Lube afford these brand new litre bikes?

Mommy or daddy co-signs.