tazering, deserved or not?
 

i can't see the vid.

LiveLeak.com - Federal Lawsuit after Guy Tasered 6 Times for not Complying after Routine Traffic Stop

jury acquitted him of resisting, and now he's filing a federal suit.

Yes deserved.

might as well skip to 3:00, because the rest of it is boring as hell

clueless little bitch

I would have tazed him 10 seconds into the video. That cop had the patience of a saint.


On a related note, it made me giggle when he screamed like a little girl. haha

He cried like a little bitch too. Should have listened to the cop. I counted at least 7 "get back in your car" and well over 2 dozen "turn around". The dude had more than enough chances to comply.

The cop would have had to put his gun away to tase the guy.

Then I would have shot him in the leg, so I had time to grab my taser.

(Scuse me officer
You shot him once in the leg and once in the ass. Why?)
I shot him in the leg to get him on the ground and again in the ass to distract him from the leg wound. I needed to do this in order to buy time.

(buy time for what?)

I needed time to switch from my gun to my taser.

I approve of this roadside electrocution

Undeserved, it's not a compliance weapon.


Would he have shot him if the taser hadn't been present?

NOPE

http://www.tactgear.com/asp.jpg

your pick, lil one or big one?

Could have taken turns with each until he found one that he liked. The tasering was still not deserved.

Amazingly, I think the tazering was deserved. If he won't kneel down and put his hands on his head, then he presents a risk to the cop. Not to mention he was trying to walk away.

He had no visible weapons, and displayed no aggression. From my point of view, there was zero intent there to cause any harm to the police officer.

He asked several times to know what he was being detained for. And the officer refused to acknowledge those requests. I can understand his frustration.


Amazingly enough, the jury agrees with me as well.

He completely deserved it. You need to comply with an officer to insure them of their safety. They may have pulled you over because you/your car match the description of an armed criminal. They do NOT need to tell you why they pulled you over until after you comply to prevent people from running. They deal with too many assholes to act like that and not expect them to get pissy. And once he was tazed he DID resist arrest. They repeated told him to stop resisting.

Do as the cop says...fight them in court later if necessary.

It's not a question of whether it was 'deserved' or not - it's a matter of the guy jumping out of his car to confront the cop & repeatedly failing to comply with a lawful order. After he refused to get back in the car & then to comply by turning around/putting his hands up, the officer must assume that it's a potential 'bad guy' and would be an idiot to not act accordingly. And tazing after repeated refusal to comply vs. physically wrestling/hitting with a baton/shooting is a far better & safer alternative. And the dumbass deserved it anyway for the confrontational attitude & refusing to do as he was told - it's a crock that he was aquitted of resisting, since apparently he fought them even when already down.

Be careful... rational thinking and compliance with law enforcement officers talk doesn't go far around here. :whistle:
Prevailing opinion is that when a cop tases someone, the cop is always presumed to be the one at fault until the douchebag involved gets awarded money for disrespecting authority.
Then the story automatically changes to "police aren't effective".

This is why I really like that they have video recordings of all pull overs now. It holds both the officer AND the subject accountable for their actions.

You got tazed dumbass.


Who the hell just jumps out of their vehicle when getting pulled over (other than this dumbass)? People that are about to run on foot.


The guy knew that he was going to be a smart ass the second the lights turned on. He deserved it.

You can read minds? Have anything to back up those claims?


Or are you just going by what you've seen on cops?

cops make it a rule to require you to stay in your car for your safety and theirs. My dad tried to get out one time just to tell the cop he was going to pull up to a safer area and the cop screamed at him to stay in his car. Hand was even on the gun. They have a risky job and can be jumpy about people coming at them.

Should your father have been tased?


Some guys here would think so...

If you were a cop you would have a completely different view. If you were a cop and you let guys act like this when you pulled them over, you'd be dead in under a year.

Don't confuse opinion with fact.

the primary fact is: dude didn't comply.

* and it goes downhill from there.

But, the jury acquitted him? Right? Pesky facts...

Yeah OJ was acquitted too, so that's proof this guy isn't guilty as well.

You're not very good at arguing/debating are you?


You seem like the type of guy who thinks that speaking louder proves your point..

Way to quickly change the subject... :gofurslf:

Haha! Seriously? you have zero facts to back up anything you say.


You say retarded things like " well oj was guilty and he got off" and you still press the issue like you've somehow proved something..

Show me one fact you've used to back up your argument.. Please? I would like for you to get how this works. I really would, but after all this time, I really don't think you do.

" I like this bike" this is opinion.

" this is the best bike in the world" this is a claim. You usually back this up with evidence to prove your point. If you don't, ppl will disagree with facts and prove you wrong.


Btw, its not classy for a mod to tell somebody to go fuck themselves. Seems like you have the attitude that a lot of police officers portray, no wonder you defend them.


I await my infraction now, for disagreeing with you. That is your personal internet taser isn't it?

Whatever dickhead. :lol Yes I laugh AT you.

Did he get back in the car and wait for furhter commands?
Did he reach for the cops gun?
Did he try to steal donuts from the dashboard?
Did he refuse to obey commands given by a police officer?
Did he resist when being arrested?


http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69801

I don't even think enough of you to even chuckle in your general direction. :idk:


But, you've proven my point yet again..

I can't click the link from my phone.


But, he couldn't have been resisting arrest until he was told what he was being arrested for.

As for reaching for guns and anything else that happened off camera, all his word against theirs.



I have no problem with police, and if the guy had any form of weapon or been combative, then he should have been subdued.

But, he wanted to know why he was being detained, which he has a legal right to know.


Charged with disobeying a lawful order? Sure, that could stick. Resisting and deserving to be tased several times? Nope..

And the jury agrees.

So, what facts do you guys have to base the legality of his tasing on?

jurys also awarded a family $850k from the bat manuf. for their son being killed by a baseball.

No because my father COMPLIED! The officer then told him why he needed to stay in his car and my dad agreed. He also let him off with a warning.

The liink is to a legal site that outlines the fact that you have to comply with police's orders. The officer does not have to tell him why he is being detained until the detainee complies with his orders.

DESERVED !! After refusing to listen to the officer's repeated request and then being told if he didn't he was going to get tased and still not complying...ZAP.

He did sound like a little b!tch after being zapped though. :lol:

Three minutes and 30 seconds of failure to obey the lawful orders of a police officer? In that officer's position and the way that guy was behaving, it wouldn't have been the Taser that I pulled.

He shouldn't have gotten off on the resisting charge.

I can't hear the vid since I'm at school but I always believe there is a reason to use a taser no matter the situation. Just as long as you can watch it on video.

He should have been tased for looking like a douche at least.

Undeserved. The man was not acting in an aggressive manner toward the police officer, yet the police officer was immediately aggressive and excited toward the man because he had exited his vehicle. The police officer immediately escalated the situation instead of defusing it using a militaristic, police state type attitude that everyone must immediately follow every order you scream no matter what.

This is another increasingly common example of a complete failure to deal with the general public using basic courtesy and common sense. The officer himself appeared to be very fearful without just cause. Hey, its a scary job...and if you can't deal with it calmly then go do something else.

One thing we do not know is why was he being pulled over in the first place. His car may have matched that of a stolen car or of a get away car or who knows. Maybe the cop had a reason to be cautious of this guy.

I agree they (many of them, just based on clips I've seen & not personal experience) tend to have an overly aggressive militant manner. Probably escalates situations needlessly sometimes, but it also probably shocks people into submission who sometimes wouldn't comply otherwise - it seems almost too 'standardized' for it to not be taught as SOP. Still seems over-the-top for them to immediately launch into it with out a bit more calm & reasoned tone at first, before a subject refuses to comply.

But all that is a moot point, because when an officer of the law tells you to quit approaching him/turn around/get your hands on your head - bitch & debate about it on the internet later all you want, but right then all one has to do to avoid raising the cops 'threat response' and possibly tazing your ass (justified or not), is to simply DO IT. :lol:

Approaching an officer who has told you to stop is an aggressive action, which warrants the drawing of a weapon. Continued failure to comply with his lawful orders, while continuing to approach said officer, warrants action.

What action was warranted is obviously up for debate..

Seems to me that it's well within policy. He was failing to comply. He was acting in an irrational manner. It was unknown whether he was armed or not. He had approached the officer. Once backup arrived and there were sufficient officers on hand to subdue him, they did.

All Police Officers should know how to diffuse potentially tazerific situations before they reach that point. Instead, the asshat in this video is IMMEDIATELY agitated, excited and demanding. The suspect in question is not a soldier in the military and should not be expected to respond 100% favorably to being barked at.

He made no threatening gesture to the officer. The officer was frustrated and pissed that the guy wouldn't bow to his supreme and ultimate power so he continued to scream and repeat the exact same thing over again increasing the suspect's level of agitation as well until he found it necessary to Taze him. I'm aware that officers do not want to get into an argument with an unsubed suspect, however you can't blame Joe. Q. Public for wanting an explanation of what they've done wrong to warrant being arrested before submitting. Barking "TURN AROUND" 80 times does not satisfy that. Again, common courtesy, common sense, respect.

Again, its just another example of a cop that can't and shouldn't be allowed to deal with the general public. We are not their subjects and they are not our kings. Yes, you have to comply with police officers during a traffic stop by law, however as servants of the public they should know how to treat us with respect and deal with the most assholish of us without violence unless absolutely necessary. Taser is a last resort before death, not a tool of submission.

People who desire more power can certainly not be trusted with it.

Yes he did, he first got out of the car, then he tried to approach the officer after being told to get back in his car. The police officer was more than patient with him. He had over 3 minutes to comply and he didn't. When he screamed like a little bitch I laughed my ass off because he had it coming.

When you are pulled over and you get out of you car, you are trying to hide something.. open container, drugs, weapons, dead body...or whatever. Sit your ass in the car and take your lumps.

I see this as an incident that was escalated by an obstinate and STUPID citizen. I agree with Rider's assessment.

Any officer who would've felt seriously threatened by that man's actions during the incident needs to grow a pair or find a new job. Its your responsibility as an officer to be calm, objective and respectful dealing with the worst of the worst every single day. This officer was certainly not calm from the start. Your statement reminds me of watching Wildest Police Videos when a cop hits someone who's fleeing and then gets on the radio and goes, "HE JUST RAMMED ME!!!" hahahaha

Should he have been prepared for a threatening action? YES, absolutely, he should've had the Taser drawn and ready to go. In the meantime he should've been treating the suspect with courtesy and respect. He did neither.

I agree with most of you here.

I do not agree with Kaneman at all. :idk:

How do you give a guy courtesy and respect when he is not obeying your orders? That man could of had a gun and the officer had to treat him accordingly. I hope the police use this as a training video as an example of how to handle this situation. I don't see where the officer did ANYTHING wrong.

Aren't you a proponent of people earning respect instead of blindly giving it?



And did he comply with the police officer?

Agreed

What is the officer supposed to do..stand there all freakin' night until this guy feels loved and respected and finally decides it's time to listen to the officer and either goes back and gets into the car or turns around and puts his hands on the back of his head and kneels down ?

BS...the officer needs to take charge and give the guy a chance to comply but if he refuses and you tell him what is going to happen if he doesn't well tough chit for him...BAM...your're tased...plain and simple.

If the officer does as Kaneman says then every single person with an attitude will run all over him and he will definitely increase his chances of getting hurt or killed.

Exactly, the officers job is to get control of the situation.

I think where we disagree is that the man was acting in an aggressive manner. I feel that he was not, I feel that his agitation was increased by the officer's attitude, actions and tone of voice. I'm not suggesting that cops act like pussies, but common courtesy is necessary by all police even in the face of possible danger, I.E., pulling someone over at night.

"Sir, I am officer _ _ _ _ of the _ _ _ _ police department, you are being pulled over for _ _ _ _ , please remain in your vehicle at this time." Notice the introduction and the use of "please." Both these things could've gone a long way toward calming a high tension situation.

I do not believe in earning respect when it comes to an Officer of the Law. As their job affords them great power over the average citizen it is their duty to extend respect to every citizen no matter the behavior. Perps with guns or knives will be killed, those who try to assault an officer will be tased/beaten, all others deserve patience and respect. Adopting the mentality that we must immediately comply with any police officer's orders without question is very scary because we have given them ultimate power. Some will no doubt take advantage of this in bad ways, as we have seen time and time again.

It is a dangerous job, you might not come home at night, everyone will treat you like shit and hate your fucking guts. You will rarely be thanked by anyone even when displaying above average bravery. If you don't like that, don't be a cop, but don't try to compensate with your taser.

Sir, I am officer _ _ _ _ of the _ _ _ _ police department, you are being pulled over for (rape, car theft, murder, drug dealing, sodomy etc) , please remain in your vehicle at this time."

Seems like a good way to get someone to act out or run. I have NEVER been told of my offense (although I usually know) until AFTER the cop has checked my record for warrents etc.

This was not a felony stop and I'm not suggesting that Police Officers change the way they conduct a felony stop as that is a different situation. My point is that when dealing with members of the general public more courtesy and less rudeness is warranted and flat out the right thing to do.

I am also not suggesting that Officers lower their sense of awareness or willingness to act with sudden and violent/deadly force to imminent threats. They certainly have the right to defend themselves in the course of doing their jobs. This is about diffusing a potentially dangerous/violent situation, something that even any average martial artist knows how to do and should be standard behavior for any Police Officer who respects his own life. Screaming the same order over and over again will not accomplish this goal. But then, they have Tasers so why should they be bothered to learn how to deal with the public right? That is my point.

Again, based on the video I've seen it is apparent the cop was fearful right off the bat. If conducting a standard nighttime traffic stop scares you then find a different job, this one is not for you.

*If I am wrong and this was indeed a felony traffic stop then obviously none of what I said applies to this specific case however it does apply to many officers that are out there*

In your previous post, you said you do have to comply with a police officers orders(and it has been law for alot longer than we have been alive).

As for the person in the video. It is common knowledge to stay in your vehicle during a routine traffic stop. that is all the officer asked the person to do.
I can do alot more damage to an officer if I am standing on my feet, than I can from a seated postion in a car.

Yes, I'm not suggesting a system where citizens are allowed to ignore a police officers orders. However, you have to realize how stupid the general public is and realize that many times they will not immediately comply and you may have to adjust your style and tone to avoid forcing a situation where violence is necessary.

I've been doing ride-alongs and working in the field for years as an EMT/Vol. Firefighter so I've seen a lot of cops diffuse much more potentially dangerous situations without any violence...and I've also witnessed a lot of behavior that borders on abuse.

A good example of what I'm talking about is seen when a Dallas Police officer stopped Houston Texan's running back Ryan Moats who was going to see his dying mother-in-law. A stop that resulted in the apology by the DPD Chief of Police...
"I am embarrassed and disappointed by the behavior of one of our police officers," the chief told a packed audience of media outlets that included Inside Edition. "His behavior, in my opinion, did not exhibit the common sense, discretion, the compassion that we expect our officers to exhibit."

OK, I see the problem. ANY traffic stop is potentially a felony traffic stop and police have to treat it that way, or they go home in a body bag.

Guy gets out of car and stays out, when told to get back in. Guy approaches cop while ignoring more orders to stop, and return to his vehicle. Before the advent of Tasers we'd have been wondering if this was a good SHOOTING instead.

We almost did.

The cop in question had his gun drawn. He mentioned it @ the 30 second mark, iirc. He did not taser the guy. The suspect asked multiple times if the cop was going to shoot him.

The guy was tasered by the back up officers that arrived.

He was obviously not enough of a threat to shoot. He had three minutes to pull the trigger and didnt.

Then if he'd have begun to approach within arms' length, he'd have been shot. A lone officer isn't going to trust in a Taser.

When did Police Officers begin using deadly force against unarmed drunks? I don't recall this being the norm...in fact, I believe that is exactly what non-lethal force is for. Fists, Billy clubs, pepper spray and yes even tasers. A firearm is not a police officer's first line of defense, it is their last.

When were police given the hardware to read minds and X-Ray bodies from 30 feet away?

How do you KNOW he is unarmed? You don't. As a cop you HAVE to assume EVERYONE is packing heat until otherwise known.

Cops were also given partners to rely on in situations where physcial conflict is unavoidable.

Of course you don't, and you assume he is packing, I agree. But you don't kill him until your own life is actually in danger...not when you assume its in danger, which is more in reference to PC's comment than the actual case at hand.

Its a fine line that requires good judgment in the heat of the moment. Not all people are capable of it, and those people should not be cops.

And when physical conflict is unavoidable Officers should Tase the shit out of someone or kill them if deadly force is truly warranted.

HOWEVER, before they get to that point there needs to be respect, courtesy and common sense. That does not mean to exit your patrol car screaming the same order over and over. Access the situation, respond appropriately.

People who are dumb enough to approach someone who has a gun pointed at their centre of mass probably shouldn't DEAL with police.

Unfortunately you're talking about a large percentage of the American general public.

Not in any way advocating or defending the man's actions, he's an idiot, its clear for all to see. My point is that Officers certainly have to be held to a much, much higher standard than the public they deal with. In fact, they need a mentality of service and courtesy first, and that was not displayed in this video.

I'd say the fact that he didn't shoot him puts him in that "higher standard" category.

No, that means he didn't get a prison sentence for shooting an unarmed man. (Assuming he was in fact unarmed, which appears to be the case)

Him being able to respectfully diffuse the situation without violence would've put him in the "higher standard" category. Thousands of cops across the country do it everyday, this one failed.

Aren't you against the street racing laws in your province? Didn't you say you didn't like them because they were a means for an officer to dish out punishment on the side of the highway without due process?

I'm going from memory here, so feel free to correct me. But, I believe you said they essentially caused you financial hardship without the option to plead your case. Even if you're innocent, you still have to pay the fees accrued due to the impounding of your car.


Now, change all of that to "taser" and tell me what the difference is? Instead of money, they cause you pain and potentially stop your heart. They assume you guilty and enact corporal punishment on you, at their discretion.

Why are you for one and against the other?

He (the guy pulled over) had a gun (a real one) pointed at his head. I'm no language expert but I think a gun being pointed at a head is international language for "do the fuck as I say". If it was a bank robber holding a gun to him and asking for his money in Latin, that dumbasses wallet would be out with the 20/10/5/1s seperated in decending order and on his knees ready to give a blow job to him.

He was wanting to be "big and bad" in front of that cop and got tasered. Infact I wanted to taser the cop after hearing 2 minutes of "Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head. Turn around, put your hands on your head."

Deserved 100%. 20 years ago he would have had his ass beat by the 2nd "turn around"

And 40 years ago the KKK was murdering blacks in the south and being acquitted by all-white juries, shall we go back to those times as well. I bet some of those people resisted before the local cops/KKK members killed them.

Extreme example? Sure it is, but it is why we can not give police absolute power.

Somewhere there is a video that I couldn't find of a State Trooper writing a guy a speeding ticket while the guy screams and cusses every name in the book at the Trooper. The man tears the ticket up and throws it out the window at which point the Trooper tells him to pick it up or get fined for littering, which the guy does...but in an aggressive manner. This Trooper is extremely calm, does not yell, does not bark and treats the deranged motorist with respect and courtesy despite the man's behavior. Trooper doesn't even taser or beat him when he exits the vehicle to pick up said ticket.

The Officer in the video posted here is obviously fearful and agitated from the moment he opened his car door. That is a problem. Again, officers have to be tactful, calm and resourceful enough to diffuse adverse situations without violence. Allowing them to tase everyone that does not immediately comply with the orders they bark out puts us closer to a police state mentality.

If the guy had gotten out of the car and into that cops face Kaneman...thinks might have been different. The key is STAY IN YOUR CAR. You can bitch all you want in your car. You get out and start moving towards the officer..different story. And no he isn't going to taze a guy he just asked to pick something up as he is picking it up...cause he was COMPLYING.

Here is a video I found that show how careful officers are during traffic stops

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH6z2zoZU2E&feature=fvw

He did get out of his car and within striking distance of the cop. He got out to pick up the ticket he tore up and threw out the window. The Trooper could've reacted physically at that point, but he didn't. He was confident in his ability to protect himself and not fearful.

Asking nicely is the difference maker. Maybe this cop would've asked nicely and the subject would've complied....or maybe not, but you extend respect and courtesy first and go from there.

Damn. I got the race card thrown at me. I lose.

I agree. Esp. at night you do not get out of your car and approach police with your hands waving around yelling shit at them.

The cops gave the guy plenty of opprotunity to let them diffuse the situation and the guy simply didn't take it. The safety of others and the officers has to come first before you start spouting off what your rights are or aren't.

Did I think the guy should have been tasered? No because the three cops could have taken him down without it. But, I'm not going to fault the cops for using it. He was warned plenty of times.