Leaked video shows 'indiscriminate slaying' in Iraq
 

http://www.collateralmurder.com/

While the link says Reuters has been trying unsuccessfully to obtain a copy of the video through an FOIA request, it never mentions the fact that Reuters editors in Baghdad were shown the video within 2 weeks of the incident. I don't know anything about the incident itself so I am not comfortable commenting on it, but ignoring facts and naming the link "Collateral Murder" calls Wikileaks' credibility in to question for me.

I watched most of it, and yes it is very questionable, but there is alot that video says and doesn't say. Why were they looking at that group of men (with weapons)? Was there any specific intelligence? Other than that, the pilots were fired on first.

As for the kids, did you see them the first time the video rolled? I didn't.

Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but there are other questions that need to be asked before judgement is passed.

"Well it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle"
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=42b_1270489420

Wow, news fucking flash. In the hottest part of the Iraq war sometimes the wrong people got killed. And yet another fucking news flash, when US troops kill who they think are insurgents they talk shit about it. The insurgents in both wars are well known for hiding amongst "non-combatants" and otherwise involving "innocent women and children." But, I tell you, it's great that this video got leaked now. Because we wouldn't want to try to move on and develop the relative stability when we could dwell on a tragic mistake that has already been investigated.

Good stuff!

Though for future reference I guess we should give pictures to pilots so they know every photographer covering the war. For that I blame Bush.

AP source confirms video of Baghdad firefight
By ANNE FLAHERTY, Associated Press Writer Anne Flaherty, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 46 mins ago

WASHINGTON – A gritty war video circulating on the Internet that shows U.S. troops firing repeatedly on a group of men — some of whom were unarmed — walking down a Baghdad street is authentic, a senior U.S. military official confirmed Monday.

The official said the video posted at Wikileaks.org was of a July 12, 2007, firefight involving Army helicopters in the New Baghdad District of eastern Baghdad.

Among those believed to have been killed in that attack was Reuters photographer Namir Noor-Eldeen, 22, and his driver Saeed Chmagh, 40. Two children also were wounded.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the video, said the military could not confirm the identities of the Reuters employees in the film.

The Pentagon would not confirm the video's authenticity on the record, despite repeated requests from The Associated Press.

"At this time, we are working to verify the source of the video, its veracity, and when or where it was recorded," a statement from U.S. military headquarters in Iraq said late Monday.

The military also provided redacted copies of portions of its inquiry into the July 2007 incident, again without confirming that the incident described in those documents is the same one posted by Wikileaks.

According to a July 19 summary of the investigation, U.S. troops acted appropriately. Reuters employees were likely "intermixed among the insurgents" and difficult to distinguish because of their equipment, the document states.

"It is worth noting the fact that insurgent groups often video and photograph friendly activity and insurgent attacks against friendly forces for use in training videos and for use as propaganda to exploit or highlight their capabilities," the document concludes.

The incident has been reported before, but the video had not been released.

The video provides a rare, disturbing close-up of modern urban warfare at a time when violence was near its peak in Baghdad and the U.S. death toll was mounting.

In this incident, soldiers flying attack helicopters were called in to assist ground troops who had been pinned down by small-arms fire and rocket-propelled grenades.

According to U.S. officials, the pilots arrived at the scene to find a group of men approaching the fight with what looked to be AK-47s slung over their shoulders and at least one rocket-propelled grenade.

A military investigation later concluded that what was thought to be an RPG was really a long-range photography lens; likewise, the camera looked like an AK-47.

Wikileaks.org posts video and documents passed along by anonymous sources. They posted the video of the July 2007 firefight at "collateralmurder.com."

The shooters can be heard asking for permission to engage, and one says "Light 'em up!"

Some men drop immediately, while at least one can be seen scrambling to get away.

"Ah, yeah, look at those dead bastards. Nice," one shooter says.

The helicopters later destroy a vehicle that arrived on the scene to help a wounded man. When ground forces arrive, the video shows what looks to be a child being carried from the vehicle and U.S. troops saying the child should be sent to a local Iraqi hospital.

"Well, it's their fault bringing their kids into the battle," a cockpit voice can be heard saying.

Navy Capt. Jake Hanzlik, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command, said U.S. forces in Iraq recognize many of the images in the video posted at Wikileaks.org and have no reason to believe it is a fake. However, he said, they were still comparing the video and audio to see if it matched their own.

Headquartered at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Fla., Central Command is responsible for U.S. military operations in the Middle East and Central Asia.

Reuters said it couldn't verify that the video was of its employees dying, even though it looks like one of the men killed had a camera slung over his shoulder.

The video is "graphic evidence of the dangers involved in war journalism and the tragedies that can result," said David Schlesinger, editor-in-chief of Reuters news.

And this is why war waged by an unrelated third party can not be used for peace.

The Times article on this gives a pretty fair explaination I think, apparently there was an engagement between insurgents and US troops nearby which is why the photographer was therein the first place. If you watch the video you see that a couple of the guys were carying assault rifles and the photographer knelt down behind a wall and pointed his camera at the Apache which they thought was an RPG. I can see why they engaged.

The only think Im not sure about is why they opened fire on the van, maybe to protect the ground troops coming in to clean up or to keep them from distubing the scene.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/wo...er=rss&emc=rss

Good article on this from Defense Tech with links to the CENTCOM report:
http://defensetech.org/2010/04/06/ce...-camera-video/

About engaging the van:

The long lense aimed at the chopper from around the corner did look like an RPG imho. War is he!! and $hit happens. If you choose to be a war correspondant or a battlefield photographer...you know the risk. :idk:

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killed upwards of 100,000 civilians.

The war between the United States and Japan was ended less than four years after the attack on Pearl Harbor, in a decisive victory for the United States.

The "9/11" event took place over 8 years ago.

Just sayin'.

What exactly are you just sayin'?

I think everyone understands the risks, everyone understands that shit happens. This is a case of "shit happens".

I'm not going to get on Reuters case because they want to get the truth to what happened to their colleague, to bring closure.

I'm not "on their case" either. I said that they know the risk and that "$hit happens"...my main point is that if I was in the chopper and saw that lense being aimed at me from around a corner (looking alot like an RPG)and was given clearance to fire...BAM I would have fired too.

All I'm saying is that I don't blame the guys in the chopper at all...it's war.

I didn't slam Reuters at all. :idk:

Yep.

Editor-in-chief said as much himself:

:?:

The Pearl Harbor comparison would work better if this was Al Queda, not Iraq.

You saw what i just said, din'cha? :idk: The moral of the story is: if an armed military aircraft belonging to a foreign power is overhead, you're probably not standing in a good place.

Oh right on....it seemed to me like you were advocating dropping nukes on Afghanistan and Iraq.

I know what you said. I wasn't disputing anything.
do you know what I said?

:lol:

Absolutely :scratch:

Then if thats the case I'm going to post the same smiles so that we are in synch.

:scratch:

ok