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Originally Posted by goof2
Ryan claiming Obama promised to keep it open (your last two claims) and Ryan blaming him for it closing (your original claim) are two different things. Even using the earlier speech Ryan never blamed Obama for the plant closing.
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I've been over my posts backwards and forwards and I still don't see this change.
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Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO the first time
But the lie, in that one instance, is in the implied blame on President Obama for the closing of the GM plant. The plant actually closed while President Bush was still in office. But somehow, President Obama is to blame not only for the plant closing, but for it not opening its doors again? And yes, that blame was placed squarely at the president's feet, otherwise Ryan wouldn't have mentioned them both in the same breath.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO the last time
But regardless, his point was the same: that President Obama somehow failed to keep the plant open after saying he would keep the plant open.
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The best I can come up with is this quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO in the middle
Neither. A belief is not a promise. And no matter how hard a candidate believes something, until he's actually president he's not going to be able to use the authority of the president's office.
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But that was a response to this question by you:
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Originally Posted by goof2
Either way we have entered the realm of mind reading, not facts. The facts are a factory was closing, Obama came in and said he believed the government could save the factory, the factory closed. Which one of those facts is a lie?
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And none of those facts is a lie. The lie is in the implication that Ryan made, that President Obama was to blame
because he "promised" to keep the plant open. Dismiss is as "mind reading" if you want, but that implication is present, and intentional. The promise and the "blame" go hand-in-hand, because if the president
had promised to keep the plant open, he would have been taking responsibility for whether or not the plant remained open.