25 years of sportbike development

[smileyman]

Tigger you forgot one thing, hi HP machines in a much higher state of tune require rigorous maintenance or they explode. The OEMs have more than doubled the service intervals for these newer better performing machines and that would definitely decrease if they go to the edge of durability to get the big HP numbers...

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

Tigger you forgot one thing, hi HP machines in a much higher state of tune require rigorous maintenance or they explode. The OEMs have more than doubled the service intervals for these newer better performing machines and that would definitely decrease if they go to the edge of durability to get the big HP numbers...

Hmmm... you're the last guy I want to debate this type of argument with BUT.... Considering the types of engine mods that are done now, I don't believe that it is quite as big of a concern as before. Swapping the cams, reprogramming the FI, porting/polishing the head, lightening the crank doesn't make the engine quite as unreliable as the old mods did. Shit, back in the day, race teams expected to go through 2 or 3 engines a race weekend. Now engine failures are a rarity and DNFs are more likely to be caused by electrical gremlins rather than blown motors. Heck, there used to be blown motors every race, now it's only once in a while and usually involves a privateer/backmarker. I'm not sure that even the top teams rebuild their engines after EVERY race anymore. Besides, a street bike would never see the kinds of stresses a race bike does.

[smileyman]

You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?!

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?!

Hmmm... maybe, but maintenance levels/requirements have dropped significantly over the last few years. Heck, my bike requires oil changes every 5,000 miles with the filter to be changed every other lof. Shit valve adjusts supposedly every 15-30,000 miles, I've never done one. I don't know bro, but reliability, at least with my bike, has not been an issue. If I'm not mistaken, the Yosh stage 2 mods don't even void the factory warranty!!! I'm pretty sure that the GSXR1000RR is covered by the factory.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by smileyman

You are correct Tigger street bikes seldom see the kind of abuse a race engine does and the OEMs have improved tolerances and metallurgy along with far better engine management to allow the 170 and 180 hp levels that are commmon in the liter bike class. However I dont know how much further they can push the powerlevel as titanium engine internals and valve acruation go thru such hi stress. Valve springs and retainers only take so much use even at a low stress street use and the we already have slipper thin pistons, hollow cams, , factory knife edged cranks and polishing...I feel if they do continue on that wew ill see a drop in reliability or at least higher maintenance requirements?!

im with tigger on this one. I believe its currently possible to build that level of power at an oem reliability. I do not however believe that output could be made to pass euro 3, nor do i believe any oem would voluntarily build to those levels in our sue happy society

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by Dave

im with tigger on this one. I believe its currently possible to build that level of power at an oem reliability. I do not however believe that output could be made to pass euro 3, nor do i believe any oem would voluntarily build to those levels in our sue happy society

Ah you've got me there! I hadn't considered emissions! That's what I meant about it being un-ridable... some knucklehead would crash and try to sue Suzuki. Heck, I once rented my bike to a lawyer who used it against a knucklehead who lost part of his foot wheeling down a city street.

[smileyman]

You guys may be right, I just now how much volumetric efficiency and advances have been made. I mean look at an F18. Awesome performance but engine replaced every 1000 hours or so. Ragged edge tuning may not be so ragged edge for an OEM that makes 220 hp 800cc engines!?

Remember back when a literbike was a hoss at 119 hp? It has come a long way...

[Amber Lamps]

Originally Posted by smileyman

You guys may be right, I just now how much volumetric efficiency and advances have been made. I mean look at an F18. Awesome performance but engine replaced every 1000 hours or so. Ragged edge tuning may not be so ragged edge for an OEM that makes 220 hp 800cc engines!?

Remember back when a literbike was a hoss at 119 hp? It has come a long way...

I remember when my V-Max was "cock of the walk"!

[derf]

Eventually they are going to hit a wall where they can't improve power without sacraficing reliability, its bound to happen eventually.

The way it wil work out is that a few years from now they are gonna pop out a liter bike that makes 200 whp, but after 10k mi a nice chunk of the bikes on the road are gonna blow their engines. Then the oem will fix the problem for a few years, but in their quest to keep up with the competition they will eventually build a weak engine.

Suzuki went through this cycle recently with the frame snapping issue, they did everything they could to shave weight until they created a major weak spot in the bike. Then they fixed it and now the weight is bellow that when they had frame problems. Eventually they just can't get rid of any more weight, unless they create some kind of anti gravity thingy.