Arizona bill would deny citizenship to children of illegal immigrants

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Family enters US on work (or education) visa.
Family works in Utah(for example) for X amount of time. Establishes residency. Wife gets knocked up and they have child.
They decide to relocate to (for better paying job) Las Vegas.
Visa expires as HR at new company is working on sponsorship.
Neither parent has commited a crime under Federal law, Utah or Nevada law.
They have established residency in Utah and are therefore citizens of Utah entitled to all applicable rights and laws. As residents of Utah they are entitled to all rights and protections afforded by the Bill of Rights (" nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. ")

They take a wrong turn and end up in Arizona on there way to Las Vegas
The parents are imprisoned. The child, who has violated nothing and is a United States citizen as defined by the United States constitution and a resident\citizen of Utah is taken from the parents, placed in the Arizona foster care system (or just put into whatever orphanage, holding tank they have down there). The parents, who never commited a crime and were legal residents of another state are deported by Arizona.

Arizona is gangsta....

This is going to be awesome to watch from a safe distance.

If the period of time they are permitted to be within the US at the time they are permitted entry is up, which isn't necessarily the length of time stated for the visa validity, then they are in the US illegally.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info_1298.html

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

If the period of time they are permitted to be within the US at the time they are permitted entry is up, which isn't necessarily the length of time stated for the visa validity, then they are in the US illegally.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/info/info_1298.html

Yes it is illegal \ that is unlawful.
Illegal unlawful whatever you'd like to call it.

Unlawful \ illegal means that a law has been violated.
It simply means that someone said fuck off to a law on the books.

It does NOT mean a crime has been commited.
In order for something to be a crime it must violate penal\criminal law.

To jack off round the country with an expired Visa does not touch balls with Federal criminal law. It violates civil law.
Its not a crime to park in Handicapped parking spot but it is illegal.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Yes it is illegal \ that is unlawful.
Illegal unlawful whatever you'd like to call it.

Unlawful \ illegal means that a law has been violated.
It simply means that someone said fuck off to a law on the books.

It does NOT mean a crime has been commited.
In order for something to be a crime it must violate penal\criminal law.

To jack off round the country with an expired Visa does not touch balls with Federal criminal law. It violates civil law.
Its not a crime to park in Handicapped parking spot but it is illegal.

I disagree with your semantic discussion. Breaking a law, in this case a FEDERAL law, means that a crime has been committed.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

I disagree with your semantic discussion. Breaking a law, in this case a FEDERAL law, means that a crime has been committed.

Its not semantics
Its law.

Its pretty straightforward.

Criminal law and Civil law.
In one...they have to prove your guilty.
In the other...we sue the shit out of each other.

OJ is aquitted in one.
OJ has to sell give up his cash in the other.

Visa violations violate US civil law but they do not violate any criminal laws.

[shmike]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Visa violations violate US civil law but they do not violate any criminal laws.

So they are here legally?

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Its not semantics
Its law.

Its pretty straightforward.

Criminal law and Civil law.
In one...they have to prove your guilty.
In the other...we sue the shit out of each other.

OJ is aquitted in one.
OJ has to sell give up his cash in the other.

Visa violations violate US civil law but they do not violate any criminal laws.

Both are crimes, simply of different degrees and with different penalties. They don't sue you for overstaying your admission; they either toss you out, or jail you and THEN toss you out.

[goof2]

Originally Posted by pauldun170

Its not semantics
Its law.

Its pretty straightforward.

Criminal law and Civil law.
In one...they have to prove your guilty.
In the other...we sue the shit out of each other.

OJ is aquitted in one.
OJ has to sell give up his cash in the other.

Visa violations violate US civil law but they do not violate any criminal laws.

As I understand it for deportation hearing purposes it is also pretty straightforward.

In one... they get proven guilty, go to jail, then get deported.
In the other...they are determined to have violated immigration law, then get deported.

Either way they are gone, or would be if the federal government decided to actually enforce the immigration laws.

[Homeslice]

Originally Posted by goof2

Either way they are gone, or would be if the federal government decided to actually enforce the immigration laws.

Which they never will.

Which gives these illegals an "entitlement complex" (particularly the Mexican ones, for whatever reason) where they start pulling the race card and talk about how gringos stole their land and how our culture would be plain & boring without them

[shmike]

Originally Posted by Homeslice

Which they never will.

Which gives these illegals an "entitlement complex" (particularly the Mexican ones, for whatever reason) where they start pulling the race card and talk about how gringos stole their land and how our culture would be plain & boring without them

Too true.

When I Googled "How to stay on an expired visa" Wiki answers gives this:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_can_yo...sa_has_expired

You stay in U.S. same way approximately 25-million illegal aliens do: just stay! Apparently no one in government cares what you do after you get here. Think of the advantages: free social and medical services, no income taxes to pay and a legitimate excuse to cry "prejudice" every time someone mentions illegal aliens. However, if you have a 10-year visa that allows you to stay 6-months at a time, try going home once in a while, preach a little anti-American rhetoric, then return to take advantage of the system you don't like enough to fill out a paper asking for permission to stay.

[pauldun170]

Originally Posted by shmike

So they are here legally?

Originally Posted by shmike

So they are here legally?

No they are here illegally (in my example).

Illegal act does not = Criminal Act

Criminal Act = Act which falls under Criminal law.
We have a
However, the US government has decided that this is not criminal act and is instead a procedural issue.

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

Both are crimes, simply of different degrees and with different penalties. They don't sue you for overstaying your admission; they either toss you out, or jail you and THEN toss you out.

No Papa, no.
Crime is an act or omission which is prohibited by criminal law. If the US penal system does not expressely state something then it is not a crime.
Maybe thats the way it works in your Faggy snowball of a country called Canada but we things called paper and on that paper are words and those words contain all sort of rules and regulations that define who things operate.
Just cause they seem the same doesn't mean they are the same.

Originally Posted by Homeslice

You can blow off parking tickets, but after awhile you will get a knock on the door.

Just like you can blow off your visa exipration date, but if you do, your visa is automatically void, and good luck with what happens after that.

The crime isn't the parking violation. The crime is failure to pay the ticket.
As far as criminal law is concerned....we don't give a fizzuck about where you parked. We only care about you paying the state the money...bizznitch.

Originally Posted by goof2

As I understand it for deportation hearing purposes it is also pretty straightforward.

In one... they get proven guilty, go to jail, then get deported.
In the other...they are determined to have violated immigration law, then get deported.

Either way they are gone, or would be if the federal government decided to actually enforce the immigration laws.

In the United States, as clearly stated in the 14th amendment all are gauranteed due process. In you post you say "proven guilty".

Therefore every individual in your example (based on the assumption that being in the country without proper status is a criminal act) would be entitled to a jury trial and legal representation.

Can you please give an example specifically citing a case (since it would be public record...federal court cases are pretty easy to look up and find shit) where a state resident was charged with the crime of "Being in the United States with an Expired Visa\ or invalid paperwork" and cite the penal code violated?
There must be tons of em. Figure a lot of people in the federal penetentiary system, lots of court cases.

They can't fast track em since to do so would raise contitutional issues.

Would seem to be a big pain in the ass since it would be a lot easier to just leave it a code violation.
I wonder how many people are locked up for EPA violations?