Bin laden dead

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

Look at it this way, waterboarding has been employed by the Gestapo, the Kempeitai (basically the Gestapo of the Japanese army during WWII), the Spanish Inquisition (whom nobody ever expects) and the Khmer Rouge.

What do all those organizations have in common?

I'll give you a hint; it's not their delicious pies and cakes.

JC

You mean they don't have delicious pies and cakes?

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

Severe pain or suffering... means something to everyone, but not necessarily the same thing to everyone... I wouldn't consider waterboard to be severe.

So, you'd be cool with me waterbording your mom, right?

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

You mean they don't have delicious pies and cakes?

Well, the Gestapo probably had a couple of guys that made a mean Strudel, but the others, not so much.

JC

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

They feel the need to inure people to torture so they subject them to a form that leaves no lasting physical injury, when performed under carefully controlled conditions. Ironically it also has little chance of causing lasting PSYCHOLOGICAL injury, because it's being performed by 'friendlies.'

Again, I suggest that you partake of it while in the 'care' of people, whom you don't know.

And the form that's used for interrogation does leave lasting physical injury?

For the psychological standpoint, that's pretty subjective... 1) the guys they waterboarded were trained to resist such things, mitigating the psychological impacts long term 2) they were pretty fucked in the head to begin with... like comparing walking a normal, well adjusted person onto a gruesome battlefield... they'd obviously have long term psychological damage, but put Charles Manson out there and watch him finger paint with entrails. Poor comparison to begin with.

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

So, you'd be cool with me waterbording your mom, right?



Well, the Gestapo probably had a couple of guys that made a mean Strudel, but the others, not so much.

JC

No, I wouldn't be cool with you waterboarding my mom. I also wouldn't be cool with you shooting my mom in the face, but if you caught one of these guys during the raid on Bin Laden's compound... no biggie.

Again, you guys are making terrible comparisons... It's not like they waterboarded hundreds of random people... They did it to guys who were trained specifically to resist that sort of thing, are fucked in the head to begin with, etc...

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

No, I wouldn't be cool with you waterboarding my mom. I also wouldn't be cool with you shooting my mom in the face, but if you caught one of these guys during the raid on Bin Laden's compound... no biggie.

Again, you guys are making terrible comparisons... It's not like they waterboarded hundreds of random people... They did it to guys who were trained specifically to resist that sort of thing, are fucked in the head to begin with, etc...

So why not just quit pussy footing around and say it; Torture is ok by you, as long as it's only done to assholes we don't like.

JC

[tommymac]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

So why not just quit pussy footing around and say it; Torture is ok by you, as long as it's only done to assholes we don't like.

JC

That can work

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

And the form that's used for interrogation does leave lasting physical injury?

For the psychological standpoint, that's pretty subjective... 1) the guys they waterboarded were trained to resist such things, mitigating the psychological impacts long term 2) they were pretty fucked in the head to begin with... like comparing walking a normal, well adjusted person onto a gruesome battlefield... they'd obviously have long term psychological damage, but put Charles Manson out there and watch him finger paint with entrails. Poor comparison to begin with.

OK, so now we know that you're OK with treating a "fucked in the head" human being, in a way you would never consider treating a dog. Being 'trained' to resist torture doesn't make something not torture. When you're trying to obtain a psychological response, in this case capitulation and the release of information, not physically messing up your captive is a plus. That's a feature, not a bug.

It also doesn't happen to, you know, work.

[OneSickPsycho]

Originally Posted by askmrjesus

So why not just quit pussy footing around and say it; Torture is ok by you, as long as it's only done to assholes we don't like.

JC

Missing the point... It's not about people I don't like... It's about adjusting the technique to account for the particular person's makeup...

Originally Posted by Papa_Complex

OK, so now we know that you're OK with treating a "fucked in the head" human being, in a way you would never consider treating a dog. Being 'trained' to resist torture doesn't make something not torture. When you're trying to obtain a psychological response, in this case capitulation and the release of information, not physically messing up your captive is a plus. That's a feature, not a bug.

It also doesn't happen to, you know, work.

See, I think it does make something torture or not... Playing heavy metal at high volumes and sleep depravation is considered torture by some... Others, it's a good weekend. There's a lot of grey area here, but again IMHO, waterboarding is not torture.

[Papa_Complex]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

Missing the point... It's not about people I don't like... It's about adjusting the technique to account for the particular person's makeup...

See, I think it does make something torture or not... Playing heavy metal at high volumes and sleep depravation is considered torture by some... Others, it's a good weekend. There's a lot of grey area here, but again IMHO, waterboarding is not torture.

Then, as AMJ stated, you need to look at how many people have been charged with war crimes for doing precisely that. You're wrong.

[askmrjesus]

Originally Posted by OneSickPsycho

Missing the point... It's not about people I don't like... It's about adjusting the technique to account for the particular person's makeup...

That makes no sense at all. If someone is trained to resist waterboarding, why do it to them? Seems like a waste of time to me.

JC