Republican says something stupid...

[goof2]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

I suppose some of the media had a week long conniption about as much as Fox News had a week of republican solidarity. All that crap evens out in the wash, at this point.

But the lie, in that one instance, is in the implied blame on President Obama for the closing of the GM plant. The plant actually closed while President Bush was still in office. But somehow, President Obama is to blame not only for the plant closing, but for it not opening its doors again? And yes, that blame was placed squarely at the president's feet, otherwise Ryan wouldn't have mentioned them both in the same breath.

Sure, they both play those games. And sure, President Obama has softened some positions and outright changed some others, but he hasn't completely redefined himself almost to the point of speciation the way Romney has. And like I said, while the democrats are most certainly lying to us, they aren't reveling in it the way the republicans seem to lately.

Minute as that distinction may be, it's all I have to distinguish the two since they seem to share common goals these days. Ask Governor Mitt Romney of Massachussetts...

I don't think Ryan was blaming Obama for the plant closing no matter what the date was. What I believe he was blaming Obama for was making promises on the campaign trail to get elected he couldn't keep when he became President.

Unlike what you believe Ryan implied, he actually explicitly stated in his speech that the factory was already headed toward closure when candidate Obama visited. During his visit Obama stated his belief that the government could save that factory. Then Ryan explicitly stated (again, didn't imply) "And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight." Ryan isn't blaming Obama for closing the factory, he is blaming Obama for making promises he couldn't keep.

Either way we have entered the realm of mind reading, not facts. The facts are a factory was closing, Obama came in and said he believed the government could save the factory, the factory closed. Which one of those facts is a lie?

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by goof2

I don't think Ryan was blaming Obama for the plant closing no matter what the date was. What I believe he was blaming Obama for was making promises on the campaign trail to get elected he couldn't keep when he became President.

But Adair tells us — and PolitiFact's post makes clear — that Ryan got the "false" rating not only because of what he said Wednesday night but for what he said at a campaign rally on Aug. 16: "I remember President Obama visiting it when he was first running, saying he'll keep that plant open. One more broken promise."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...mise-the-facts

Either way we have entered the realm of mind reading, not facts. The facts are a factory was closing, Obama came in and said he believed the government could save the factory, the factory closed. Which one of those facts is a lie?

Neither. A belief is not a promise. And no matter how hard a candidate believes something, until he's actually president he's not going to be able to use the authority of the president's office.

Originally Posted by President Obama at Janesville

"And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years. The question is not whether a clean energy economy is in our future, it’s where it will thrive. I want it to thrive right here in the United States of America; right here in Wisconsin; and that’s the future I’ll fight for as your president."

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...gm-plant-open/

[goof2]

Originally Posted by fatbuckRTO

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolit...mise-the-facts

Neither. A belief is not a promise. And no matter how hard a candidate believes something, until he's actually president he's not going to be able to use the authority of the president's office.



http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/...gm-plant-open/

So rather than fact check the actual statement Ryan used at the RNC Politifact instead fact checked a statement Ryan made in a speech 2 weeks before, declared that a lie, then painted the RNC statement with the same brush despite the language at issue having been removed.

By your claim above (RNC speech didn't call it a promise), which is different from the claim you made in your earlier post, was Ryan's RNC statement a lie?

[fatbuckRTO]

Originally Posted by goof2

So rather than fact check the actual statement Ryan used at the RNC Politifact instead fact checked a statement Ryan made in a speech 2 weeks before, declared that a lie, then painted the RNC statement with the same brush despite the language at issue having been removed.

By your claim above (RNC speech didn't call it a promise), which is different from the claim you made in your earlier post, was Ryan's RNC statement a lie?

Originally Posted by Paul Ryan at the RNC

"That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight."

If we're quibbling over the presence or absence of the word "promise," there it is. But regardless, his point was the same: that President Obama somehow failed to keep the plant open after saying he would keep the plant open. That point was disingenuous at best. In my opinion, it was an outright lie because I don't think Ryan is stupid enough to believe that President Obama was actually promising to keep that plant open.

How have my claims changed from earlier posts?